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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be concerned about Boris Johnson's re-shuffle?

261 replies

AlexaShutUp · 13/02/2020 23:47

I'm no fan of either Boris Johnson or Sajid Javid, but I'm not really intending to make any political points in this thread. I'm resigned to having a right wing Tory government, but I am concerned about the shift in power that seems to have occurred, and by Johnson's apparent power grab.

Specifically, I'm concerned about the circumstances of Javid's departure from the Treasury. Javid's position was made untenable and I understand why he walked out, but surely it's much better for the country if the PM has some challenge from number 11, rather than a puppet that merely does their bidding - which I suspect Javid's successor will turn out to be.

A healthy democracy needs to have plenty of checks and balances with regard to those in power, and I'm worried that these are being eroded. Meanwhile, the power of unelected advisers like Dominic Cummings appears to be ever growing.

OP posts:
LemonTT · 15/02/2020 10:19

Because he wouldn’t have gotten his way in cabinet. Javid is a savvy politician too. Not some innocent abroad. He sees his life on the back benches being a thorn in the side. Building his base. He does not want to be a puddle.

He was too well positioned to sack so he was forcibly given the option to resign. It’s just normal politics.

Alsohuman · 15/02/2020 10:22

He was too well positioned to sack so he was forcibly given the option to resign. It’s just normal politics

Julian Smith was a universally acclaimed success, he didn’t put a foot wrong, he wasn’t “too well positioned to sack”. It’s a Tory thing, isn’t it? Never letting the facts get in the way.

LemonTT · 15/02/2020 10:31

Javid, the subject of the thread and your earlier point, was far better positioned than Smith.

He has a known support base amongst MPs. He is high profile and has clout. He made the headlines. These are facts.

I can talk facts if they are the point of discussion. Just widening out the topic and point of discussion when you cannot defend your opinion is not talking facts. It’s just being churlish.

Alsohuman · 15/02/2020 10:39

So, on that reasoning, he’d have been sacked if he’d refused to resign. I’m not buying it.

Livelovebehappy · 15/02/2020 10:45

Let’s put this into perspective. We are two days into the cabinet reshuffle. Who knows at this very early stage whether his decisions are good or bad? The situation could have been a whole lot worse - the alternative would be watching Corbyn with his new cabinet; not good when looking at the people he aligned himself with in his party in the run up to the election. So let’s just look to the heavens and be happy that the situation isn’t as bad as it could have been. Totally hysterical over reaction to one person resigning.

MarchDaffs · 15/02/2020 10:51

Yeah, no. Corbyn is now irrelevant: he isn't PM, Johnson is. Johnson gets assessed in that context. His decisions don't become better or worse because of what we think about someone else's.

And the reality is that his appointees are saying some concerning things, if you pay any attention to them. I actually don't have too much of an issue with him booting Javid, though obviously having such an inexperienced replacement is a problem. But we have an AG who wants to place significant limitations on access to judicial review and an NI secretary who has just said something that's either a lie, a serious misunderstanding or indicative of a desire to throw NI under a bus. Those things are perfectly legitimate concerns and saying ooh, things could be worse is not a sensible response.

LemonTT · 15/02/2020 10:53

If he had refused to resign his advisers would have been sacked. He would have been weakened. Politically he either had to suck it up or resign.

He made the calculation he would be better off on the back benches regrouping and waiting. They decided they were strong enough to accept that. Their majority being bigger than his power base. Time will tell. Javid still has power.

Forrandomposts · 15/02/2020 11:02

Javid was setting limits on borrowing that meant the spending couldn’t happen or there would be tax increases

But Sunak is generally accepted as more fiscally conservative that Javid, so if this move was about increased spending then it's already gone wrong.

LemonTT · 15/02/2020 11:04

All the reports today say he is on board with spending plans.

Alsohuman · 15/02/2020 11:11

So when it all goes tits up (as it almost certainly will) will get the blame, thus positioning Javid perfectly to be the next Tory leader.

Alsohuman · 15/02/2020 11:11

Missing word Sunak, aka the fall guy.

AlexaShutUp · 15/02/2020 11:44

Of course Sunak is on board with the spending plans. He'll do what he is told in order to hang on to his job. That's why he was appointed.

FWIW, I would welcome greater public spending and investment. I'm just a little sceptical about Boris Johnson's sudden conversion to Keynesian economics, and suspect that what we're actually in for is a whole lot of smoke and mirrors.

I expect to hear lots more announcements along the lines of the election pledges about investing in 50,000 new nurses. Things will not be quite what they seem, but there will be plenty of people who are happy to swallow the rhetoric.

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CendrillonSings · 15/02/2020 11:45

Out of interest to Zombie and the other Johnson devotee on here, what would he have to do to make you realise that he is manifestly the wrong person to run this country?

Lose an election in a historic landslide - you know, the way Corbyn did! Grin

AlexaShutUp · 15/02/2020 11:49

Lose an election in a historic landslide

That's very illuminating. What you're basically saying is that you have no ability to criticality analyse Johnson's performance yourself, so you'll wait for the rest of the electorate to do it for you.

Let's hope that the rest of the electorate actually have some standards to measure him against, eh?

OP posts:
CendrillonSings · 15/02/2020 12:02

Eh? I voted for him too, on the basis of my own political judgement. Let’s check the latest opinion polls to see how much of the country shares your carping views:

Election Maps UK
@ElectionMapsUK

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 48% (-1)
LAB: 28% (-2)
LDM: 10% (+2)
GRN: 6% (+1)
BXP: 2% (=)

Via
@YouGov
, 8-10 Feb.
Changes w/ 31 Jan-2 Feb.

People seem quite delighted with Boris and the Conservatives so far. What a shame so few people share your superior critical skills Grin

Justhow · 15/02/2020 12:04

On what basis would they be delighted though - genuinely. What is so delightful about having Boris as PM?

AlexaShutUp · 15/02/2020 12:07

So why don't you answer the question, then. The opinion polls are irrelevant to me, because I form my own judgments.

You seem to be saying that you think BJ is doing a good job because most people think he is doing a good job. That's a pretty circular argument if you ask me.

OP posts:
MarchDaffs · 15/02/2020 12:07

8th to 10th of February predates the reshuffle...

CendrillonSings · 15/02/2020 12:12

You seem to be saying that you think BJ is doing a good job because most people think he is doing a good job. That's a pretty circular argument if you ask me.

He’s kept his campaign promise to leave the EU by the end of January. The Budget will reveal whether he will keep his economic promises next month - I think he will. He’s kept the loony socialists far from power for a loooong time.

So far, so good - he’s doing everything I voted for.

LakieLady · 15/02/2020 12:13

I remember the wasted Blair years when he was paralysed in trench warfare with Brown. Boris has been entirely sensible making sure he has he right man in the treasury so he can push forward with his agenda

We have a cabinet system of government in this country, not a presidential. One person implementing their own agenda is how business is done in a presidential system, and therefore somewhat unconstitutional (but in the absence of a written constitution, there's not much that can be done about that).

The role of PM is not in any sense superior to that of ministers, it is that of "first among equals". The decision making process has, historically, been one of consensus and collaboration. Even Thatcher mostly listened to her ministers and, when she stopped doing that, they ousted her.

Having rid the parliamentary conservative party of its moderates, and got a massive majority, any opposition that could temper Cummings' and Johnson's more extreme and bonkers notions has gone. The PCP is full of yes-men and -women, and fellow headbangers.

They have little or no regard for the electorate that voted for them, look at the way they gained all those seats in the north, then pulled the plug on the northern section of HS2.

The big mystery for me is Johnson's apparent transformation from being a socially liberal, one-nation Tory who appeared to be pretty pro-European up until that bloody referendum was called to, frankly, being a bit of a nutjob. Is he going along with all this because it suits his overweening ambition, was he a closet headbanger all along, or is he being manipulated by those who manouvered him into the position he always longed for?

Only time and history will tell, and I fear it won't be a pretty tale.

CendrillonSings · 15/02/2020 12:14

8th to 10th of February predates the reshuffle...

Go on then - please predict how big the Labour lead will be once the public realizes that Boris has - gasp! - reshuffled his Cabinet? Grin

LakieLady · 15/02/2020 12:25

I see Brandon Lewis is off to a roaring start with ‘there will be no border between GB and NI.” I suppose as the electorate have shown that they don’t particularly care that they are being lied too they may as well continue doing so.

I hope he was telling the truth, tbh. No border between GB & NI means no border between UK and EU, which means we keep FOM of goods and people.

Alsohuman · 15/02/2020 12:31

Can we please forget bloody Labour? For the next five years they’re a complete irrelevance as are opinion polls. We’re stuck with this shitstorm so it’s going to be held to account. If all those who voted for it can manage is “Yes, but Labour..” or prattle on about opinion polls, they haven’t got much.

CendrillonSings · 15/02/2020 12:34

You wish you could forget about Labour. If you had your way this country would be in the grip of the far left right now, with Corbyn, McDonnell, and Abbott creating Venezuela-on-Thames as we speak.

Boris put a stop to all that. And no, we’re never going to let you forget about it!

JudyCoolibar · 15/02/2020 12:38

@LakieLady, the problem is that Johnson isn’t pushing ahead with his agenda, he’s pushing ahead with the agenda of the unelected Cummings.