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Original poster

To be concerned about Boris Johnson's re-shuffle?

261 replies

AlexaShutUp · 13/02/2020 23:47

I'm no fan of either Boris Johnson or Sajid Javid, but I'm not really intending to make any political points in this thread. I'm resigned to having a right wing Tory government, but I am concerned about the shift in power that seems to have occurred, and by Johnson's apparent power grab.

Specifically, I'm concerned about the circumstances of Javid's departure from the Treasury. Javid's position was made untenable and I understand why he walked out, but surely it's much better for the country if the PM has some challenge from number 11, rather than a puppet that merely does their bidding - which I suspect Javid's successor will turn out to be.

A healthy democracy needs to have plenty of checks and balances with regard to those in power, and I'm worried that these are being eroded. Meanwhile, the power of unelected advisers like Dominic Cummings appears to be ever growing.

OP posts:
luckylavender · 14/02/2020 17:13

OP -What do you mean you don't want to make political points? That's exactly what you're doing. Why is anyone surprised that Johnson & Cummings would behave like this? The signs were all there.

Notthebloodygym · 14/02/2020 17:13

He's going for the Trump model. It's crystal clear now.

Alsohuman · 14/02/2020 17:21

It’s not just about proroguing Parliament @CendrillonSings, it goes a lot further than that. In any case it’s only Tory governments that have ever prorogued it.

Original poster
AlexaShutUp · 14/02/2020 17:23

OP -What do you mean you don't want to make political points?

Sorry, that was not very well phrased at all. Obviously, it is political, but what I meant is that I think this is an issue that should transcend party politics because it's about how our democracy functions. I am not seeking to make a point here about the policies that Johnson wishes to implement, but rather about his approach to government. Even if a leader was implementing policies which I supported, I would be very concerned to see them acting in this manner.

And yes, I know that the signs were all there. It's just depressing to see it playing out in this way. I fear that history will not judge us kindly.

OP posts:
ProfessorSlocombe · 14/02/2020 17:24

If Parliament is prorogued, then nothing gets done. No legislation can be passed, so it’s hardly a brilliant step for a wannabe dictator to take, especially one who already has a large majority allowing them to do what they like anyway.

You write as if you don't understand the difference between the Legislature and the Executive, which is a bit odd.

CendrillonSings · 14/02/2020 17:36

In any case it’s only Tory governments that have ever prorogued it.

That’s just factually incorrect, since prorogation is the constitutional procedure used to end one session of Parliament and begin another. As such, every Government that has governed for any length of time has employed prorogation. What you mean is that you never noticed a non-Tory government do it before.

Doesn’t it feel better to stick to facts rather than imaginary problems?

Notonthestairs · 14/02/2020 17:46

Cendrillion - that Queens Speech was really worth waiting for wasn't it? What was in it again?

Alsohuman · 14/02/2020 17:58

No, what I mean is that only Tory governments, ie Major and Johnson, have deliberately prorogued Parliament for their own political ends. Didn’t take long for the nit picking to start, did it?

Limitedsimba123 · 14/02/2020 18:00

I’m no leftie (although I did vote tactically for labour in the GE) but it is clear Braverman wants to seriously curtail judicial review, not just to stop so called ‘politics by other means’ but actually curtail JR for individuals. She wrote in a piece last month calling for curtailment “even the most intricate relations between state and individuals can be questioned by judges.” She then went onto attack Human Rights Act, particularly the right to privacy and family life.

Limitedsimba123 · 14/02/2020 18:12

I see Brandon Lewis is off to a roaring start with ‘there will be no border between GB and NI.” I suppose as the electorate have shown that they don’t particularly care that they are being lied too they may as well continue doing so.

SirChing · 14/02/2020 18:56

This isn't about right v left. It's about a whole new autocratic style of government which the UK has hitherto avoided.

Sure, the opposition is crap. It was also crap when Blair was in power. The difference is that able Cabinet ministers then, weren't sacked for not being acceptably stooge-like enough.

Good managers know that any team NEEDS people who think differently, otherwise you often fail to identify possible pitfalls in policy.

Anyone who DOESNT think what we are seeing is worrying, is showing that they mistake dictatorial tendencies for true strength. It doesn't matter whether you are a Tory or Labour voter - both should be worried about this. If they aren't, they are clearly politically naive.

AllTheWhoresOfMalta · 14/02/2020 19:05

It’s terrifying. A lot about this past three years has been terrifying but I agree with the PPs who’ve said that they suspect that the issue here is that Johnson is actually a weak and ineffectual leader who is allowing himself to be lead by advisors with dangerous ulterior motives. I actually think that for all of his classical references, he’s not actually that bright. And that’s scary.

SirChing · 14/02/2020 19:14

@AllTheWhoresOfMalta He isn't all that bright. He is like Stephen Fry. Who Julie Birchill accurately described as a "stupid person's idea of a clever person". Both talk crap but do so with an impressive vocabulary, thereby bamboozling people into thinking they are intelligent.

There is a difference between being intelligent and being academic. I doubt either Johnson or Fry have ever had an original thought between them.

Alsohuman · 14/02/2020 19:21

Added to which he’s lazy. Bone idle in fact.

SirChing · 14/02/2020 19:27

Added to which he’s lazy. Bone idle in fact Yes! One of my exes worked with Boris for a while. Said he was a total nightmare. Pays no attention to detail, gets bored and loses interest in his own ideas, and thinks charisma is an adequate substitute for ability. A total and utter pain in the arse apparently.

Poohpooh · 14/02/2020 19:30

@ZombieFan

Not sure what you are concerned about. The country voted to have Boris as PM and to run the country. He is now PM and running the country. What are you concerned about?

Didn't realise that once a PM has been elected everyone can just stop being concerned and relax Hmm

cardibach · 14/02/2020 19:36

@ZombieFan Not sure what you are concerned about. The country voted to have Boris as PM and to run the country. He is now PM and running the country. What are you concerned about?
Um...no they didn’t. That’s not how our system works. The6 voted for their MP. The brief result was That Johnson, as leader of the largest party, became PM. We don’t vote for a PM here. We don’t have a presidential type system.

cardibach · 14/02/2020 19:37

Don’t know where the word brief came from there.

CendrillonSings · 14/02/2020 20:07

Amazing how this supposedly incredibly stupid and lazy person managed to smash every force arrayed against him and gain virtually unlimited power in this country Grin

Just imagine what he could have done if he were intelligent and hard-working - we’d be on the brink of conquering Mars!

Poohpooh · 14/02/2020 20:14

@Cendrillon - yep, I work in senior corporate culture and it seems the big brains think B is cleverer then he lets on and the buffoonery is deliberate.

I don't see it myself and I definitely didn't vote big C..

ZombieFan · 14/02/2020 20:15

Didn't realise that once a PM has been elected everyone can just stop being concerned and relax
I agree with that but it doesn't justify running around like headless chickens screaming "hes a dictator, hes a dictator".

I think a lot of people have become addicted to a hamstring hung parliament, a paralysed minority government, a weak & timid coalition, and coercively controlled Blairs leadership.

A strong powerful PM seems to be a new concept to some people. But many others are very relieved to see Boris take back control and get Britain moving again. I dont see any signs of anything close to a dictatorship. Just a properly functioning long overdue democratic government.

Livelovebehappy · 14/02/2020 20:26

He’s PM, first day with his new cabinet - let him get on with it. Don’t get the criticism already when he’s barely started fgs.

Original poster
AlexaShutUp · 14/02/2020 21:29

But many others are very relieved to see Boris take back control and get Britain moving again.

That's good. Enjoy the sunshine while it lasts.

OP posts:
Cinammoncake · 14/02/2020 21:34

But many others are very relieved to see Boris take back control

This just sounds like you've swallowed one of his soundbites. I actually wonder if people are becoming brainwashed by the constant repetition of these phrases.

What control has he taken back and from whom do you think?

He’s PM, first day with his new cabinet - let him get on with it. Don’t get the criticism already when he’s barely started fgs.

Well the Chancellor resigned yesterday, 4 weeks before the budget, because he didn't want to have to be forced to sack all his advisors. In his place is now somebody pretty inexperienced. So that's one thing that has caused some concern, among others.

Alsohuman · 14/02/2020 21:42

I can’t link because of the paywall but The Times comment columns to day agree with those of us who are sceptical.