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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be concerned about Boris Johnson's re-shuffle?

261 replies

AlexaShutUp · 13/02/2020 23:47

I'm no fan of either Boris Johnson or Sajid Javid, but I'm not really intending to make any political points in this thread. I'm resigned to having a right wing Tory government, but I am concerned about the shift in power that seems to have occurred, and by Johnson's apparent power grab.

Specifically, I'm concerned about the circumstances of Javid's departure from the Treasury. Javid's position was made untenable and I understand why he walked out, but surely it's much better for the country if the PM has some challenge from number 11, rather than a puppet that merely does their bidding - which I suspect Javid's successor will turn out to be.

A healthy democracy needs to have plenty of checks and balances with regard to those in power, and I'm worried that these are being eroded. Meanwhile, the power of unelected advisers like Dominic Cummings appears to be ever growing.

OP posts:
ZombieFan · 14/02/2020 22:02

I wonder why some people think a democratically elected government should have silos of opposition and special advisers created within cabinet to leak and frustrate governments implementation of its manifesto. It is Parliament, MPs and the oppositions job to scrutinise and oppose government not ministers.

Boris is perfectly right to have a disciplined cabinet that is on the same page as him. And if that means sacking a few Spads to avoid a Gordon Brown type situation developing in the future then he was sensible to do so.

MarchDaffs · 14/02/2020 22:05

What are your thoughts on him having booted one of the most successful and widely respected Northern Ireland ministers for ages?

ZombieFan · 14/02/2020 22:14

I have no thoughts on it, I have no idea about any of the details of what really happened and why. But I do support the right of a democratically elected PM to decide what ministers and spads he needs to be in the cabinet.

I will judge Boris on what he does or doesn't achieve, not on a perfectly normal reshuffle.

Alsohuman · 14/02/2020 22:18

I have no idea about any of the details of what really happened and why

Maybe educate yourself before you air your opinions then.

MarchDaffs · 14/02/2020 22:20

If you've no idea of the details, how did you come to the conclusion that Boris is perfectly right and sensible?

CendrillonSings · 14/02/2020 22:28

I can’t link because of the paywall but The Times comment columns to day agree with those of us who are sceptical.

Oh well, that settles the issue then. The Times comment columns obviously override the will of the elected government - I believe it says so in Erskine May Wink

Original poster
AlexaShutUp · 14/02/2020 22:28

I have no thoughts on it, I have no idea about any of the details of what really happened and why.

Now there's a surprise.

OP posts:
ZombieFan · 14/02/2020 22:30

Hmmmm I know plenty of the details reports on TV, in newspapers and on social media. I have no idea of the actual FACTS. And neither does anyone on here.

So until then I will support the perfectly normal behaviour of a democratically elected politician.

Alsohuman · 14/02/2020 22:32

That’s an interesting interpretation @CendrillonSings. We’re talking about what people think not Parlimentary process.

CendrillonSings · 14/02/2020 22:32

So until then I will support the perfectly normal behaviour of a democratically elected politician.

I know right? It’s almost as if all ministers serve at the pleasure of the Prime Minister. The clue’s in the name!

Cinammoncake · 14/02/2020 22:33

Hmmmm I know plenty of the details reports on TV, in newspapers and on social media. I have no idea of the actual FACTS. And neither does anyone on here.

Are you saying you don't believe the news, or feel unable to find out the facts?

So until then I will support the perfectly normal behaviour of a democratically elected politician

Until when?

MarchDaffs · 14/02/2020 22:35

Speak for yourself. I know that Julian Smith is no longer NI Sec, that Stormont was restored on his watch and that he was accepted by all parties there and many other stakeholders, but that he was booted anyway. These things are facts.

ZombieFan · 14/02/2020 22:42

Are you saying you don't believe the news, or feel unable to find out the facts?

Perhaps you could tell me the actual FACTS then about why Boris sacked Julian Smith? And perhaps explain how you know them, as opposed to just the speculation and rumours from media? Maybe you are a mind reader? Or maybe you work in No.10?

Original poster
AlexaShutUp · 14/02/2020 22:46

Hmmmm I know plenty of the details reports on TV, in newspapers and on social media. I have no idea of the actual FACTS. And neither does anyone on here.

So until then I will support the perfectly normal behaviour of a democratically elected politician.

That's the point, though, isn't it? His behaviour is not perfectly normal, which is why it has attracted comment.

Attitudes like yours really worry me tbh. You choose to ignore the facts as they have been reported across multiple different news platforms, and blindly trust instead in the actions of a politician purely on the grounds that he has been democratically elected.

History has already taught us that the fact of being democratically elected offers no protection against dangerous or immoral behaviour. Let us not blindly trust in our politicians merely because they have "won" at the ballot box. Let us instead scrutinise their actions carefully and hold them to account when their actions do not stand up to that scrutiny.

OP posts:
ZombieFan · 14/02/2020 22:58

That's the point, though, isn't it? His behaviour is not perfectly normal, which is why it has attracted comment

In what way is his behaviour not normal? He is attracting comment because it is the first time in a very long time we have a strong leader. Because he has obeyed voters to leave the EU, something that is yes monumental.

But a reshuffle? How is that not normal? What is not normal is leaders unable to do reshuffles.

CendrillonSings · 14/02/2020 23:01

His behaviour is not perfectly normal, which is why it has attracted comment.

Only in your own mind. Prime Ministers have always had the right to appoint and dismiss Cabinet ministers without having to explain themselves to anyone. That goes double after the PM has just won a landslide and is carrying out his first reshuffle.

Cinammoncake · 14/02/2020 23:12

Because he has obeyed voters to leave the EU

I'd say it was the other way round, since he led the vote leave campaign and based that on lies on the side of a bus and other lies.

In what way is his behaviour not normal?

He has wiped out pretty much all the cabinet except Liz Truss and replaced them with yes men. Why?

Remember that we don't have a president or a dictator yet It's meant to be cabinet government

He is trying to undermine the constitutional checks and balances in our country by appointing a very right wing and inexperienced attorney general. What might people fear the net result of that could be? loss of human rights at best, Facism at worst.

Too much power focussed in the hands of one or two men has always got the potential to lead to problems. Some people might think oh no it's fine 'Boris' is a lovely person who just wants to help poor people in our country. Some people don't think that. It depends how you judge character maybe.

CendrillonSings · 14/02/2020 23:14

Facism at worst.

Prejudice against people’s faces is the worst, I agree Grin

Original poster
AlexaShutUp · 14/02/2020 23:14

Nobody is saying that he can't do a reshuffle, but....

Forcing your chancellor out of office a few weeks before the budget by making him sack every single one of his advisers? Not what you would expect.

Filling the second highest office in government with a very inexperienced junior minister? Highly unusual.

Sacking the most successful Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in years? Surprising.

Appointing an Attorney General who wants to limit the power that the courts have to enforce the laws of the land? Bewildering.

Rewarding loyalty and compliance rather than capability and achievement? Not normal.

This is not just any old reshuffle. The fact that you cannot see that is worrying.

OP posts:
Cinammoncake · 14/02/2020 23:14

Sorry Fascism

CendrillonSings · 14/02/2020 23:23

AlexaShutUp

Quite. It’s not any old reshuffle - it’s the first reshuffle of a PM at the height of his power in both his party and the country. Unsurprisingly, he’ll use it to stamp his authority exactly as he wishes. Did you complain about every change in Cabinet under Thatcher and Blair?

When you become Prime Minister, you’ll be able to make your own decisions about who the best Northern Ireland Secretary is. Until then...

DioneTheDiabolist · 14/02/2020 23:25

Boris appointed this Cabinet only a few months ago. They won him a great election only a few weeks ago. JS restored Stormount.

Why is he sacking these people?Hmm It raises a lot of questions about our PM. He either lacks judgement, or knowledge, or loyalty or political skill or vision, or wisdom if he's had to bin off so many people who came through with him so quickly.HmmConfusedHmm

This Cabinet reshuffle proves the PM's lack of trustworthiness, integrity and work ethic. We should be concerned.

ZombieFan · 14/02/2020 23:30

He has wiped out pretty much all the cabinet except Liz Truss and replaced them with yes men. Why?

So Tony Blair sacked 14 ministers and its fine, but Boris sacks five and he is a dictator? Right........... ok. I guess Some people dont think PMs should be allowed to appoint their own cabinet. Not very democratic really.

Catchuptv · 14/02/2020 23:32

@JingsMahBucket - totally agree

CendrillonSings · 14/02/2020 23:33

Boris appointed this Cabinet only a few months ago.

When he had a majority of 2, if that.

They won him a great election only a few weeks ago.

How many Cabinet ministers did you see during the election? Boris was front and centre - his personality, his strategy, his victory.

This Cabinet reshuffle proves the PM's lack of trustworthiness, integrity and work ethic. We should be concerned.

Let me guess - you wanted Corbyn to be PM now, right? Wink

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