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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Child at Nursery

81 replies

Norealclue · 11/02/2020 20:14

Hi everyone
I have been thinking this over and just can not decide what to do so I hope that someone will be able to advise here.
There is a child at our Nursery who has been biting other children. Quite a number of the children have been bitten. Naturally the mothers of the children who have been bitten have been discussing this. It is not right that children are supposed to be enjoying nursery and learning various things while there. The children are not there to be attacked by any other child.
Discussions have been held with the Head by the relative parent of the child who was bitten on each day. It then changed so that a number of the mums have discussed that their children have been bitten. There is also some scratching as this child grabs any toy they fancy out the hands of other children. The child grabs a toy but discards it soon after. It seems to be a case of not allowing children to have the toy they want.
It turns out that the child is a "special" case in that the child is under Social Services. It is very likely that something awful has happened to this child.
This situation has been going on for over a year and while having some sympathy for the child, the other children have a right to attend nursery safely and without any damage happening to them especially as an outcome from any other person in the nursery.
The nursery have refused to move the child to another nursery, they are offering mothers of the bitten children assistance to find other nurseries for their children.
There has been sympathy for the child but this is lessening and some resentment is setting in. Could it possibly be right to allow a nursery child to attack other children and not deal with it effectively in a year. The nursery they are not given enough staff for 1 - 1 for the child. The nursery say they are doing their best. They totally refuse to move the child so it is up to other mums to decide to more their children. Would it not ring alarm bells if a nursery started losing pupils? What if other pupils arrive to take the place of the children who leave and they are bitten too.
Nurseries must have more responsibilities than this. Can anyone advise?

OP posts:
Reginabambina · 11/02/2020 21:03

It’s just biting and it’s not going to cause any lasting damage. The reality is that all (with very very few exceptions) toddlers are arseholes. In some this arseholerly manifests I’m biting. Others a mean, others are completely self centred and so on. I appreciate it’s not nice to see this happen to your child but being bitten by other children is very much a part of childhood. If it’s becoming too much for your child or for you I would moving them to different sessions or a different nursery as the biter clearly isn’t going to move.

Mysterian · 11/02/2020 21:04

All the children are in the 2 - 3 years room. There are 15 children and three members of staff. That is not enough staff. The ratio is 1:4. They must have 4 staff minimum. If that's correct you need to report them.

Bobbybobbins · 11/02/2020 21:04

This is such a difficult situation and I feel for the child, the other children and the nursery.

Getting extra funding is extremely challenging. Both my children had some 1-1 funding and it was almost impossible to get it before the age of two.

Hoik · 11/02/2020 21:09

The reality is that all (with very very few exceptions) toddlers are arseholes.

A-fucking-men to that.

I have four children and every single one of them has gone through the arsehole stage, youngestnis still in it.

I have been the mother of the bitten child and I have been the mother of the child doing the biting, both make you feel awful on behalf of your child but when it comes to toddlers this sort of behaviour is very common. This is why the onus is on the nursery to manage the behaviour rather than on the child.

Norealclue · 11/02/2020 21:11

The nursery in is a local area. It is council run I think. Everyone in this area knows a fair bit about everyone else's business. The child lives in the next street to me. I expect that the child is now being cared for better than previously. When the nursery head made a comment to me about the child being in a certain category I had no idea what that was so had to ask.
I think a PP is right. Move my child. It will take extra effort and expense but the safety of my child is more important than mere money, not that I am rich. There seems to be a difficulty keeping things confidential. If the nursery staff should not have said about the category thing they will not be keeping all our records confidential.

OP posts:
Waveysnail · 11/02/2020 21:12

Dc place is probably funded by social services to allow some normality and socialisation in his/her life. If your not happy then move your child

Charlie97 · 11/02/2020 21:15

@Norealclue I've asked before, but you've not answered directly. Where is your information on the child co,I gotta from, am I correct in saying it's gossip?

Littlemissdaredevil · 11/02/2020 21:17

I thought 2 years old was peak biting time for children as not many have enough language to express themselves yet and they haven’t learnt to share.

Charlie97 · 11/02/2020 21:18

The nursery in is a local area. It is council run I think. Everyone in this area knows a fair bit about everyone else's business. The child lives in the next street to me. I expect that the child is now being cared for better than previously. When the nursery head made a comment to me about the child being in a certain category I had no idea what that was so had to ask.

You don't know how the nursery your child attends is run?

donkir · 11/02/2020 21:22

As a previous poster said age 2-3 children are a ratio of 1:4 so they're already breaking the law by only having 3 staff with 15 children.
I'd be reporting to ofsted with your concerns first and foremost.

MTGGamer · 11/02/2020 21:22

Can I add to this: I work in a nursery in a 2-3s room. If there are 15 children attending every day then the OFSTED regulations stipulate there should be 4 staff members at a minimum. The ratio is 1 adult to 4 children and that's without any additional needs. This needs raising or you are within your rights to complain to OFSTED

MTGGamer · 11/02/2020 21:26

Cross post there. Sometimes funding allows for additional support but this may also not be for the entire session. Our nursery is private, 10 hour days, and funding may, for example, only cover 3 hours a day of 1:1 care. So the question is, when do you then apply those hours? Meal times? Outdoors? General play, it's a lot to evaluate and is never as cut and dry as it seems.
That being said, biting is unfortunate and unpleasant, I'm sorry you are all having to go through it. If the child does have additional needs they may not know what they are doing or cannot communicate their needs, in which case they react physically. There are often many support teams in place and hopefully their needs will be met sooner rather than later.

MaderiaCycle · 11/02/2020 21:30

I’m with @Hoik and @Reginabambina it’s just biting. They're not shooting each other and they are aged 3 max! Chill your boots. Sounds like you want to move and need a reason

Norealclue · 11/02/2020 21:32

@Charlie79 I have already answered your questions.
The information on the child being in some category came from the Head of the Nursery when it was stated that the child can not be moved because of this category.
The nursery is not a private nursery, it is a local nursery. It's name is not stated in the same way as my old nursery which was/is (place name) Nursery. It is (place name) Community Learning Centre. It appears to be part of the Education department of the local authority but with that name and the kind of area it is in, it would not be unreasonable to wonder if it is part of Social Services.
I know how the nursery is run. Certain ages are in certain rooms. Child moves according to age and ability to each room.
I have wondered if the child has been moved to a higher age room to see if the slightly older children would influence communication or to safeguard the children in the younger room. The head stated the
child was a baby!
I don't know what is going on and now that I have seen a question of confidentiality being raised I am less than pleased. Best I move my child. So that is my decision made.
Thanks for giving me more views to decide from

OP posts:
turnedabout · 11/02/2020 21:39

I thought all children bite at some stage? It's down to their parents to teach and reinforce that it's not a nice thing to do. I think pinching and spitting is the same, right? Kids have learned something new to do but they don't know it's not nice.
I remember my friend biting her little girls finger (gently of course) every time the child bit someone/ to show her it wasn't nice when it happened to her. She soon stopped.

pumpkinbump · 11/02/2020 21:41

I think the poor child needs a better nursery, I'd also be looking for a better nursery for my own child because this one doesn't seem to give a damn that this child is biting others and they don't seem to have the ability to stop it.

youareacuntychops · 11/02/2020 21:47

Their ratios aren't right. If they had the correct number of adults they could probably supervise the children better.

Charlie97 · 11/02/2020 21:56

@Norealclue so the nursery have supplied you with confidential information about a child? That they're in a "category"?

Coupled with you don't know how the nursery is run!

Then change your child immediately!

Dan68 · 11/02/2020 21:58

From the little that you know and explained, this child sounds extraordinarily vulnerable. Look up ACES OP and have a think about what might have happened to this child in order for them to behave in such a way. If they are in this nursery, it would be entirely disruptive to them to move to another one in many ways, and the nursery are right not or move them. The child moving nursery will only increase its stressors and the behaviour would likely continue somewhere else. They need time and support to adjust. If you’re really upset about it, move your child nursery. It sounds like the nursery are already doing everything they can and hopefully with more time the child will stop reacting in this manner. I try and think about these poor child as being in recovery from their trauma.

ThisHereMamaBear · 11/02/2020 22:01

What would you do if your child was the biter?

bananaskinsnomnom · 11/02/2020 22:05

Is the child in care or just under social services?

I will point out with people asking “what on Earth are the nursery doing with the extra funding” - it isn’t much at all! It’s more like the equivalent of the Free for 2 Year Olds funding. A bit of a premium but to be frank it will cover a staff member for about 10 hours a term. It’s not funding for a 1:1. Trying to get that for children with clearly complex additional needs is like getting water from a stone as it is. There’s no money in early years. The more funded time families are given the worse its getting.

Im interested how you know so much about this little boy? Obviously you’ve said it’s an area where everyone knows each other....

However you should not have been told the name of the child who had bitten. The Head shouldn’t be discussing anything about that child with you. His behaviour with toys shouldn’t be discussed with you. Only your child’s.

No one here knows what provisions are in place for him unless you are in the room for all sessions. There’s likely to be a whole file on him with behavioural plans and progress plans and god knows what. What I will say is that, first off, excluding a child from preschool is not simple and Ofsted are really coming down hard on putting everything in place to keep all children in a setting (while funding gets cut of course). Second of all even with the best plans in place, it takes a split second for a two year old to bite someone. I’ve been shadowing a biter several times before. Half the time I can grab them in time, sometimes I blink and crunch.

I fully understand that everyone’s priority is their own child. This is a 2 year old boy already on a bad start in life. He’s biting because that’s how he has been taught or how he needs to communicate. He snatches toys probably for attention (and to be frank, taking toys just because another child has it will continue right into school years and in my experience every child is guilty of this). This doesn’t make the biting ok. But the nursery don’t have to disclose their strategy to beat the biting with you. Don’t underestimate how hard this is for them to deal with too. The amount of evidence that has to be gathered to seek help is also astronomical.

You won’t get through school life without having difficult children / behavioural needs / additional needs/ children in care or under child protection in your child’s class who will dominate a considerable amount of staff time. It’s just worth noting that when you say you will move your child. I imagine you’ve all been distributed a list of nurseries due to complaints.

The bitings not good but the toy Issue is really not an issue. Two year olds can’t share. I am concerned about the ratio - unless you mean for example there’s 3 key workers in the room? We’ve always had enough staff but not everyone’s a key worker so parents are less familiar that they are there IYSWIM.

I’m not saying your concerns aren’t valid because they are. Of course every child has the right to be safe. But you don’t know the full story behind the scenes of how the nursery are trying to tackle this. All the children are entitled to early education and safeguarding.

Norealclue · 11/02/2020 22:38

I have read that ACES thing. It is horrible. It is very likely that it is something that is along those lines that have caused the child to have been moved to live around here. This area has a lot of families who would fit into the ACES video. All the more reason for the children not to be harming each other. The nursery seemed very keen on teaching sharing and my child used to play sharing with me a while back.
I don't dislike this child (the biter). The child is cute, sometimes shows a sad face but seems very happy when their "people" arrive to pick up. When the sad face is on show I would love to pick the little kiddie up for a cuddle but know not to do that. I know the child's "people" likely need a break which is why the child is likely at the Nursery.
Are you all sure that the child to staff ratios are wrong. It is 3 adults with 15 children what each adults qualifications or roles are I don't know. Perhaps I was naïve to just trust that the nursery would be run properly. If the ratios are wrong I think the nursery is unsafe.
The reason I know how is doing the biting is that my child speaks well and tells me today X bit Y, or X bit A, or look at my hand X scratched me when taking (toy) from me. Other children can speak well too and they are telling their parents things have happened. We can not expect 3 year olds not to say things and I would not like my child to feel they could not talk to me.

OP posts:
Molly2017 · 11/02/2020 22:39

In the circumstances you mention I would move my child if I had that option.
Ordinarily I would say the nursery should be monitoring the child in question more closely, perhaps shadowing and reinforcing good behaviours etc but given the complex needs of this particular child including their overwhelming need for consistency and stability, I would move my own.

Tiredtiredtired100 · 11/02/2020 22:53

You’re not happy with the nursery. I don’t get why you’re therefore trying to find ways to get them to change rather than moving your child to somewhere you’re happy with? You’re trying to change the nursery and it’s staff/policies and that seems pretty futile to me. If I was you I’d either accept the situation or move my child. Those are really your only options.

Bibijayne · 11/02/2020 23:14

They're under 3? Isn't some biting fairly usual at this age?