To ask was it all worth it for DD 1 to attend a super selective grammar school when she is so down on herself because she won't be going to Oxbridge like her three best friends.e

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DD 1 YR 13 is hoping to get offers from Warwick , Bath or Surrey Universities. However, despite potentially having the choice of three great Uni's is feeling extremely low this evening, unbelievable i know but with three of her closet friends likely to get offers from Cambridge and Oxford is feeling 'stupid!

Do these extra selective girls schools create the idea for normally very bright girls that if you are not Oxford/Cambridge bound you are mediocre .
Out of sympathy DD 2 year 10 who is at the same Essex Grammar school as now informed me she intends leaving the school next year and will not go to University.

Put her in the 20 lowest attaining pupils.

I guess that's the problem with over tutoring and using a school where many the parents are equally as competitive. I don't get why parents do this, the first half of their childhood is spent tutoring and tons of homework. The second half, well pretty much the same really. It's a shame that people use grammar schools this way. It's not what they were intended for. A naturally bright child should not need tutoring to buy in place in the grammar school.

I still don’t really understand your AIBU, OP. You knew the nature of the school. Somebody has to be in that bottom twenty, even if they would be one of the highest achievers in a comprehensive setting.

It'll be her three friends all gabbing about oxbridge this and that and sharing rooms and going to balls and how everyone there must be really smart.

She'll have a great time at uni away from the elitists

She'll have a great time at uni away from the elitists

Totally.

DD2 is still doing well. No-one can say she doesn’t deserve to be there with her GCSE predictions.

French is a subject that can easily be improved with extra effort, tuition, language audio.

The weakest pupil in my class at A level ended up fluent after a year out in France and went on to do a French degree.

Esteban, its total nonsense to say that being in the bottom 20 in a grammar school would make you one of the highest achievers in a comprehensive school. Even in fully selective areas, there will be plently of children in the secondary modern who just narrowly missed the cut off for the grammar school, or who are later developers, or who didn't get any private tuition or parental encouragement, who go on to get 8s and 9s in their GCSEs.

In most parts of the country, where the selective system just doesn't exist, comprehensive schools are full of children who get top grades and go on to top universities.

In most parts of the country, where the selective system just doesn't exist, comprehensive schools are full of children who get top grades and go on to top universities.

Exactly. I was one of them. And plenty of kids in grammar school areas choose to go to their comprehensive instead. Not everyone wants to go to school in a competitive elitist environment. And choosing not to does not mean they won't do equally as well.

I find it really unfair to be sneering at and belittle the children/ experiences if those who attend Oxbridge. Trying to make everyone else feel better for not winning a lance by belittling the children who do, doesn't sit well with me. Different places will suit different kids, and will give different experiences. Your daughter didn't apply. Many who do and attend thoroughly enjoy the experience, and many who attend other institutions- RGD's or not still have a great time. Go where you are able and you feel you fit. Whether that's Oxbridge, another RGD, or a different university. Sneering at those who make the 'elite' uni's is as bad as sneering at those who don't to me.

Actually even at the mid range Kent girls grammar i attended DD 2s predicted grades would put her in the top 15 girls for her year ! They would be very encouraging to her and be not down on the two 6 predicted grades . She also would only be doing 9 GCSE' s so would have more time to work on Math's and get a 7 or so.

Thanks for your intensely patronising contribution, MandMand. I’ve taught for fifteen years in both true comprehensives and non-selective schools in grammar areas. Predicted grades of 2 8s and 7 7s will put you pretty near the higher end of the cohort in virtually all comps.

Also, FWIW, I’m intensely opposed to grammar schools despite having attended one myself. I think they’re absolutely toxic - but that is not the focus of this thread.

I'm intensely opposed to grammar schools despite having attended one myself. I think they’re absolutely toxic Totally agree. I attended a grammar school too and am very thankful we live in an area where it's a comprehensive system.

I find it really unfair to be sneering at and belittle the children/ experiences if those who attend Oxbridge

I just sneer at the parents who over tutor their kids in order to bag a place at grammar school. Within that is a snobbery that local schools and mixing with the riff raff aren't good enough. A good comprehensive caters for all range of abilities, and the beauty of it is that kids learn to mix with people from all walks of life. If a child got into grammar and Oxford based on their own ability, and not how much parents are prepared to spend, then yep, absolutely good for them.

And I expect the girls who cant get into Warwick, Bath or Surrey feel just the same. And the people who wanted to be footballers but were not quite able to and the would be pilots whose eyesight was not good enough and so on ...

There is a whole world out there, and it doesnt help if her friends get in, but most dont. Let her go on and be successful in real life and by that her whole self.

DD was unsure about applying for Cambridge she really wanted to go but was worried about how she would feel about a rejection. I said well if you don't give it a go then you will never know. If she didn't apply then she definitely wouldn't have a chance at going but if she did then despite the odds at least there was a possibility.

She made sure her other 4 choices on UCAS were places she liked. Throughout the process we constantly repeated it was a lottery and there was no magic formula to gain a place. Many fantastic, high flyers with successful happy lives never went to Oxbridge.

I think the process was good in that it helped her develop a give it a go attitude.

Ultimately she did get in but the pressure was immense and it was really tough on her mental health although I don't think she regrets going. She chose a profession which is fiercely competitive and her current employer kept in touch with her throughout her degree after she met a recruiter at a networking event in her first year and she received a future conditional job offer from them at the end of her second year.

My DS saw the pressure his sister was under and decided that wasn't the type of Uni experience he wanted so he never wanted to apply. He is off to Uni in September and is beyond excited as he loves the campus, course and "feel" of the place he has chosen.

Both DC's attended grammar schools but they are not super selective ones, basically in our local area if a pupil achieves the required score they gain a grammar place.

Sounds like CCHS. Even back in 1998 because I wasn't going to Oxbridge (didn't offer my film course) I was less than nothing. They really only cared about how many went to Oxbridge as that was always the headline. However, I still got into my first choice despite Oceac exam board losing my papers. I've had (and still have) a brilliant career, three gorgeous kids and I had a fabulous time at my uni. My friend who went oxford loved it, but I was horrified at what a comparatively weird time she had- obsession with wearing gowns for exams, lots of braying cretins... she will have a blast at Warwick at be much more in touch with the real world. She can always defer her place and reapply to Oxbridge after a gap year if she really, really, wants to.

This is a fascinating thread. I went to a comprehensive in Chelmsford; my parents refused to let me sit the 11+ on the basis that I would not have thrived at CCHS and it seems from this that they were probably right! I had friends who went there, including quite a few who moved for sixth form, and I definitely had the impression that it didn't suit them all. The points about mental health ring particularly true.

From my comprehensive I did go on to Cambridge (where I had a wonderful, if challenging, time). The school could not have been more supportive of my application, bringing in an external tutor to give the handful of us who were applying interview coaching, making it possible for me to sit an additional A-level etc. I doubt I would have got that level of extra attention at a school where pupils routinely went on to Oxbridge, I wouldn't have been in the top 10% at CCHS.

OP, if DD2 does want to move for sixth form she has loads of fantastic options in the area.

Also, FWIW, I’m intensely opposed to grammar schools despite having attended one myself. I think they’re absolutely toxic - but that is not the focus of this thread.

Totally agree. I had a shitty time at mine - it's not great to socialise with a lot of rich stuck-up smart people and then leave the school realising you've never spoken to a bog standard average person in a manual job. I hated the middle-class-ness and snobbery about universities and jobs. So glad I live in an all-comprehensive county, if I ever have kids.

OP, I don't really get how you're surprised that her predicted grades are considered "average" in a super-competitive school....you tutored her for 3 years to get in! Somewhere where an average child has to do that much preparation to get in, is obviously going to be very competitive and high flying! A lot of kids get into grammar schools with 0 tutoring, or just a few past papers with their mum. This is what she's up against.

If she wants to apply to go to oxbridge she can wait for results and apply with grades in hand.

Your jobsinceschoolhave failed on this point is to build her resiliency and make sure she feels.she made the right choices. Which sounds like going to Warwick would be great . Seems pointless to wail about the 3 with oxbridge offers when she can go proudly to a perfectly good uni!
Not everyone who applies gets into oxbridge.
Being in a selective doesnt guarantee offers and certainly you cannot even get an offer if you dont apply.
Oxbridge doesnt solve all life s problems or guarantees your life.
You can have a great career without oxbridge degree!
(But school is nasty if it belittles everyone below oxbridge offers ...so is it worth it? No
.but you made best decisions at the time. Own them. Be happy for dd and her offer!

This sounds like it may be more about your daughters self esteem and friendship group maybe ? Would she benefit from a gap year and gaining some life experience - my 19 year old is currently transforming into a grown up in South Africa , whilst learning to teach diving - she’ll be off to University in September

Despite my reservations here i must point out that in so many ways the school is excellent. For instance the girls are extremely well turned out, super polite very respectful and helpful to those they can help.

Also in fairness to the school, probably as part of a self reflection exercise about the possible mental fatigue of pupils. Therefore, have reduced sixth form requirements by two grade points.

OP - your younger daughter cannot leave education at the end of Year 10

Sorry Year 11

Do these extra selective girls schools create the idea for normally very bright girls that if you are not Oxford/Cambridge bound you are mediocre
Of course they do. That's why you sent her there.