AIBU? How do I reply to this text?

[OfMe]

Ok - so I'll change names to try and preserve decorum, but this might all be quite outing anyway.

DH and I worked for 'Christopher's creative project for two years and saw it through from start to finish. DH mainly gave up weekends and evenings for a fair few months, I worked on the project the whole time, working very long hours. Our compensation was 'in kind', but as we wanted to get started in the industry, we didn't mind, and it was a good opportunity. Roll on to now, the project completed last Summer, and we've been waiting to see if Christopher would get another one off the ground, however, due to external events, he recently informed us that the next project wouldn't be starting until the Summer.

So DH and I thought we would do a very small project of our own, that would take a month or two to prep, maybe a month more to complete. We thought that (as we are supposed to be part of the company) that it would probably be ok to borrow some equipment for a day, if we insured it ourselves. So I asked and Christopher said yes, that would be fine.

So I then asked if I should email the other partners in the company just to keep them in the loop. I was very clear that we weren't expecting any of them to help us with it, that DH and I would do it on our own with some other external colleagues.

Two days ago, Christopher said yes, that's fine, just make sure the equipment is insured and that it happens under the company name. He wanted to see the specifics of the project so I sent them over.

However, when i asked again today if I should just email the other partners so that they aren't surprised when they see it appear on social media (because it would have to be), he then texted back, saying; I'll check with the other partners, but my instincts are to put any side projects on hold until after the next project.' To presy the next paragraph, he essentially said, he doesn't want too many projects happening at once, it's just bad timing'.

Firstly - somehow, this has gone from being a small project completely belonging to DH and I, to a 'company' project. Secondly, AIBU to be quite upset that we've worked so hard for his project, and now he won't extend us the courtesy of lending us equipment for a day? Thirdly, as I've discussed with DH, we are just now going to go and do our project ourselves, even if I have to spend hundreds of pounds to get our own equipment or hire some, but then the question arises of, how do I tell Christopher that we're going ahead with the project politely - and without losing my rag at him. Every starting phrase I can think of ends up sounding shirty at best, and fucking livid at worst. I know I shouldn't assume that it would have been ok to borrow the equipment - but DH has previously borrowed the equipment, returned it, and it's been fine. So it's either because he thinks the other partners will want to get involved with our project, which will take them off his (which I've already said I wouldn't ask for), or he is either embarrassed to have our project linked to the company, or alternatively, he thinks our project might be creatively better than his? We're at a loss, but I don't think we're going to find out directly from him. AIBU to be so angry about this? Or is there something I'm missing here?

How about 'Ok, cool, no problem about not borrowing the camera, as we think we've sourced another for this project. Give us a heads up when you know more about project 2 as we're looking forward to working together again soon!'?

Ok so what does being part of Christopher's team bring you that you can't do yourself? Because he is taking massive advantage of you. And yes, I'd put money on him wanting to steal some credit for your and DH's idea, or stop you going off independently.

sorry just had to post the parrot posts made me laugh!

I wouldn't bend over backwards for this guy. What a user!

I'd say 'Completely understand. We'll find our own equipment so there is no impact on the company.' And then I'd fucking charge him for 'project 2' or he could stick it up his CF's arse. What a twerp!

Just an aside but the company have broken minimum wage laws, its not up to you or them to decide on your employment status its a matter of law. Presuming in the uk. If hmrc have any reason to look at this company they could be in serious trouble you may be surprised but you cant volunteer at just any company

@bellabelly yes, that's how it stood a couple of days ago - he said fine, borrow the equipment (we just had to insure it - no problem) but don't tell the other partners because he wanted them focused on his project (fair enough). However this morning, he then said he didn't want any side projects being done, as it would mean that there would be too many projects going on at once - which is bullshit, as there's only his, that he is managing at the moment, and we have no involvement in at the moment. If his project happens when he's saying it's going to happen, we'll have finished our project well before.

And don't do his project 2. You already have credits with him under your belt now, so once you've done your own project, either do another on your own or get involved with another production company. If it's to gain experience and credits you need to work with different people anyway for that to be credible.

I'm really sorry to be harsh OP and I do with you well but I have to say the following.

I work in the TV/ Film industry. It is people like 'Christopher' who expect people to work for nothing AND people like yourselves who work for no pay/ 'exposure' that make it REALLY difficult for professionals in the industry to be paid appropriately for our skills and time. The industry is full of piss takers who think because film/tv is 'cool' that we want to work for free or 'exposure'.

Even for no/low pay projects you need a contract which outlines boundaries, intellectual property etc.

OP, it sounds like ye have been taken for mugs by him, so I can understand your annoyance.

He doesn't sound trust worthy.

It seems as if he has shown you very clearly exactly who he is. Believe him.

Listen to @coolwalking, really. I'm in the creative industries and worked aged 18 at an indie production company. They paid me. Respectable companies pay. More recently I was "business partner" to someone, spent two years building a firm, only for him to destroy it in one fell swoop (and a story worthy of an Eastenders plot line). Fortunately in the end, highly ironically, because we had no paperwork, I could walk away and rescue my career. Please don't be taken the piss out of. Get an agreement or work for decent people.

You’ve already done loads of work for him for free and if that hasn’t given you the exposure or opportunities you need then doing so again isn’t going to help.

@coolwalking, I completely agree with you - it's a ridiculous state of affairs, and something that is inherently wrong with the system that drastically needs addressing. DH does work FT in the industry, but doing this in his evenings and weekends allowed him to get a more creative credit, and initially I was only supposed to be running the crowdfund, but when the PM dropped out last minute I said I'd do it, which turned into running the post-production process because by that point I knew more about the project than if someone else had stepped in - and the project had run out of money. We did have contracts as Producers, which were identical to all the other Producers (I drew them up), but while there was funding to make sure crew/cast got paid (not great, but still paid, expenses, accommodation, food covered etc. obviously he couldn't afford to pay for us, which was why we got EP agreements. (We didn't think it would make any money, but at least if it does, we're technically entitled to our percentage.)

He wanted to see the specifics of the project so I sent them over.

Woah! He was cool with you borrowing the equipment until he saw the details of your project? And now he's asked you not to do your project, with an implausible excuse?

He's going to steal your project!

Do whatever it takes to get your work out with your own name on it ASAP. And don't tell him you're doing so.

Send back a noncommittal message, eg "Oh I see. Anyway, about them cubs..."

Then do your own thing pronto.

If there's any fall out, then you can use the replies PP have suggested – that it was your project not a company one and you managed to get your own equipment. He can hardly pretend that he's worried you're taking up partners' time when it's already happened without them even knowing about it.

Just to say, DH and I have been saying for ages that we ought not to do the next project with him - especially not if there's no direct pay.

I'm struggling to find a reason as to why he would have changed his mind like this, and why he would just assume that our small project would not be achievable within the timeframe, and assume that we would automatically be happy to drop it in favour of waiting for his to start?

The reason seems obvious to me. He's taken your idea and he's doing your project himself. He doesn't want you sharing any information with other partners because they'll find out what he's up to and who he stole the idea from.

I have zero evidence, I'm just cynical.

@OfMe

Is the project 2 really likely to get you and DH much further forward than project 1? Just trying to understand why you will need to do such a massive project for this company again.

If all the sacrifices you made for project 1 were made in order to help you get further forward why are you going to need to do a similarly big project again?

Sounds to me like he's taken the piss and promised everyone involved things he shouldn't have, so is now trying to create a buffer zone between you and the other partners you were planning to email.

@OfMe People like this guy will never be taken seriously in the industry and I doubt if anything will come from the project. I have NEVER worked for low/no pay. It's a job, not a hobby. If you treat it like a hobby then you will get shafted.

I am in Post Production -did you edit the film? I don;t understand what you would need to supervise for a budget project. Footage is given to editor then editor edits it. Job done.

Oh god just read your posts back again. He's either going to steal your project and / or has already pitched it to the partners and is now having to maintain it's his idea. Why did you send him the details?!

Perking, I don't think he's going to nick my idea. I'm halfway through the feature script idea, have written the short, and as we're GB, I have the email trail to prove I sent the IP over so if he does make anything similar I could probably litigate.
I DO think he could be pissed off that we want to run with it on our own, and that I said previously that as he's not in a position to commit to our project that we would direct it ourselves. He has previously said that he didn't need another director or a writer, because that's what he does, and that's why a previous partnership didn't work. BUT he does know that DH is a great cameraman and editor, and that I've got a degree in English Lit, and a masters, and knows that I write screenplays. I think he might have the willies that the other partners might want to back our project, or that I would ask them to, but I've already said I won't. Dh says it's a good thing he doesn't want us to borrow his camera as we can hire or buy a better one. But I'm still livid just because if he'd had to hire a PM for two years to run the crowdfund, the media campaign, production manage the filming, oversee the post, and manage the media campaign for the release, it probably would have cost him around 80k. To then deny me the camera for a day, and cost me £400-900 to hire or buy one (and that's cheap) just seems churlish to me.

He’s screwed you with your pants on, really, hasn’t he?

I agree sounds like he is going to steal the project

@coolwalking I mostly sourced the sound designer, assisted in decision making during the sound designing etc (I'm a music teacher as well - this is so outing, I don't really care at this point), but also arranged all the requirements for the deliverables to go to the distribution company, on occasion sent out the film to a couple of festivals (where Christopher was unavailable), liased with reviewers and the distribution company around the social media promotion pre-release, got all the copies to the local cinema and arranged the cast and crew screening, etc. etc. I could go on.

But you've done £80k+ work for free for this guy, of course he thinks you are mugs!

I'm not having a go at you, I'm angry on your behalf but also bewildered that you've done that much free work across two years, it's madness.

What does DH think about this? What does he want to do re replying? It's so important you will be a united front on this and be prepared for a conversation that may end in bad feeling between you two and this guy.

I really don't think he's going to nick my idea - it's just not that common an occurrence, and I've already written the script - the fact that I have multiple drafts stored on my laptop, have sent to DH, and to other collaborators, means that automatically it has copyright in the UK. But just to make sure, I'll get it covered by the WGA East tonight.

It's difficult @YasssKween - DH also has just arranged for his FT employers to pay for DH to share Christopher's office, so they've just 'work-married' if you like, and DH's work is employing Christopher on a forthcoming job, so I have to be quite careful, as I don't want to make their trip together shit. I think I'm just going to have to do as others have suggested and send a light-toned reply that more or less says 'ok, no probs' but either we drop the project, or just go ahead and do it anyway - which he is bound to find out about given the grapevine locally/social media etc. so I may as well just come out and say we're going ahead with it.