AIBU? How do I reply to this text?

[OfMe]

Ok - so I'll change names to try and preserve decorum, but this might all be quite outing anyway.

DH and I worked for 'Christopher's creative project for two years and saw it through from start to finish. DH mainly gave up weekends and evenings for a fair few months, I worked on the project the whole time, working very long hours. Our compensation was 'in kind', but as we wanted to get started in the industry, we didn't mind, and it was a good opportunity. Roll on to now, the project completed last Summer, and we've been waiting to see if Christopher would get another one off the ground, however, due to external events, he recently informed us that the next project wouldn't be starting until the Summer.

So DH and I thought we would do a very small project of our own, that would take a month or two to prep, maybe a month more to complete. We thought that (as we are supposed to be part of the company) that it would probably be ok to borrow some equipment for a day, if we insured it ourselves. So I asked and Christopher said yes, that would be fine.

So I then asked if I should email the other partners in the company just to keep them in the loop. I was very clear that we weren't expecting any of them to help us with it, that DH and I would do it on our own with some other external colleagues.

Two days ago, Christopher said yes, that's fine, just make sure the equipment is insured and that it happens under the company name. He wanted to see the specifics of the project so I sent them over.

However, when i asked again today if I should just email the other partners so that they aren't surprised when they see it appear on social media (because it would have to be), he then texted back, saying; I'll check with the other partners, but my instincts are to put any side projects on hold until after the next project.' To presy the next paragraph, he essentially said, he doesn't want too many projects happening at once, it's just bad timing'.

Firstly - somehow, this has gone from being a small project completely belonging to DH and I, to a 'company' project. Secondly, AIBU to be quite upset that we've worked so hard for his project, and now he won't extend us the courtesy of lending us equipment for a day? Thirdly, as I've discussed with DH, we are just now going to go and do our project ourselves, even if I have to spend hundreds of pounds to get our own equipment or hire some, but then the question arises of, how do I tell Christopher that we're going ahead with the project politely - and without losing my rag at him. Every starting phrase I can think of ends up sounding shirty at best, and fucking livid at worst. I know I shouldn't assume that it would have been ok to borrow the equipment - but DH has previously borrowed the equipment, returned it, and it's been fine. So it's either because he thinks the other partners will want to get involved with our project, which will take them off his (which I've already said I wouldn't ask for), or he is either embarrassed to have our project linked to the company, or alternatively, he thinks our project might be creatively better than his? We're at a loss, but I don't think we're going to find out directly from him. AIBU to be so angry about this? Or is there something I'm missing here?

@GiveHerHellFromUs - I completely get what you mean, however, it's more that I'm struggling to see that I'm not justified in being offended, upset and angry that after everything we've done, he won't let us use the equipment for a DAY. If it's because he's afraid we'll approach the other partners asking for their assistance, I've already said I won't, so DH and I can't see why it's such an issue, especially as DH has borrowed the equipment before. It's also an industry where people talk A LOT, and unfortunately, if we ended up parting on bad terms, for whatever reason, I wouldn't really want our names maligned behind our backs if it wasn't warranted. Unfortunately, people will always support the more popular and powerful of the two sides of an argument, and aside from anything else, we just really don't want things to get ugly if it can be avoided. But I'm deeply deeply upset by this, and I'm struggling to find a reason as to why he would have changed his mind like this, and why he would just assume that our small project would not be achievable within the timeframe, and assume that we would automatically be happy to drop it in favour of waiting for his to start?

@GiveHerHellFromUs - I completely get what you mean, however, it's more that I'm struggling to see that I'm not justified in being offended, upset and angry that after everything we've done, he won't let us use the equipment for a DAY. If it's because he's afraid we'll approach the other partners asking for their assistance, I've already said I won't, so DH and I can't see why it's such an issue, especially as DH has borrowed the equipment before. It's also an industry where people talk A LOT, and unfortunately, if we ended up parting on bad terms, for whatever reason, I wouldn't really want our names maligned behind our backs if it wasn't warranted. Unfortunately, people will always support the more popular and powerful of the two sides of an argument, and aside from anything else, we just really don't want things to get ugly if it can be avoided. But I'm deeply deeply upset by this, and I'm struggling to find a reason as to why he would have changed his mind like this, and why he would just assume that our small project would not be achievable within the timeframe, and assume that we would automatically be happy to drop it in favour of waiting for his to start?

@GiveHerHellFromUs - I completely get what you mean, however, it's more that I'm struggling to see that I'm not justified in being offended, upset and angry that after everything we've done, he won't let us use the equipment for a DAY. If it's because he's afraid we'll approach the other partners asking for their assistance, I've already said I won't, so DH and I can't see why it's such an issue, especially as DH has borrowed the equipment before. It's also an industry where people talk A LOT, and unfortunately, if we ended up parting on bad terms, for whatever reason, I wouldn't really want our names maligned behind our backs if it wasn't warranted. Unfortunately, people will always support the more popular and powerful of the two sides of an argument, and aside from anything else, we just really don't want things to get ugly if it can be avoided. But I'm deeply deeply upset by this, and I'm struggling to find a reason as to why he would have changed his mind like this, and why he would just assume that our small project would not be achievable within the timeframe, and assume that we would automatically be happy to drop it in favour of waiting for his to start?

@GiveHerHellFromUs - I completely get what you mean, however, it's more that I'm struggling to see that I'm not justified in being offended, upset and angry that after everything we've done, he won't let us use the equipment for a DAY. If it's because he's afraid we'll approach the other partners asking for their assistance, I've already said I won't, so DH and I can't see why it's such an issue, especially as DH has borrowed the equipment before. It's also an industry where people talk A LOT, and unfortunately, if we ended up parting on bad terms, for whatever reason, I wouldn't really want our names maligned behind our backs if it wasn't warranted. Unfortunately, people will always support the more popular and powerful of the two sides of an argument, and aside from anything else, we just really don't want things to get ugly if it can be avoided. But I'm deeply deeply upset by this, and I'm struggling to find a reason as to why he would have changed his mind like this, and why he would just assume that our small project would not be achievable within the timeframe, and assume that we would automatically be happy to drop it in favour of waiting for his to start?

I'm absolutely gobsmacked that not only have you done hundreds of hours of work for no money, this man is trying to say that your new project should belong to his company.

And why the hell didn't you sign papers to say you had some tie to the business? That was really foolish.

I'm absolutely gobsmacked that not only have you done hundreds of hours of work for no money, this man is trying to say that your new project should belong to his company.

And why the hell didn't you sign papers to say you had some tie to the business? That was really foolish.

Sorry, OP, but you sound very submissive and like he has taken you for an absolute mug. 2 years of full time work for free isn’t normal in any industry I have ever heard of. No paperwork. And now he’s trying to act like your boss.

Stop it. Tell him to do one.

Yeah, it's interesting seeing what you all make of it - @mantarays yes, I do very much feel a bit 'wtf' about it all given the hard work we put into his project - his text this morning felt quite literally like a slap in the face, saying that he neither appreciates nor respects the work we put into his project, if he can't bring himself to lend us the equipment for a day.
And @GiveHerHellFromUs @BaolFan @SleepWarrior, that was exactly the kind of thing I was looking for - the problem is that we have been working so closely over the course of the last project that Christopher is a family friend, and things are usually very relaxed and friendly, so it'll be a bit weird to suddenly go all formal on him, so perhaps the answer from @SleepWarrior might be the best way to go.

@HollowTalk it was actually not really in our interests to tie ourselves to the company at the time, as we weren't sure how well we were all going to work together, and the financial risk involved in the large project meant that we thought it would be a good idea to do the first project 'untied' to see how it went - we did have a contract for the project which technically allocated us a percentage of the profit, but of course, a percentage of nothing is nothing. We didn't do the project for the money, we did it to get experience and to get known in the industry, which we did get. I'm just so deeply sad about it all, and maybe I'm overthinking it, but I'm not really inclined to sign up to another of his projects in any capacity at the moment. But then part of me is thinking that perhaps that's what he wants - maybe he's looking for a way to push us out of the picture for some reason?

@OfMe is it a very competitive industry? Does he see you as his employees (rather than equals) even though nothing has been signed?

I think you're justified in the way you feel. He's taking the piss. But you don't need to part on bad terms. Presumably this project is a money maker? If you really have to justify yourselves to him, tell him that unfortunately you can't turn work down due to your personal financial situation. It doesn't need to be true.

Could this project lead on to better things for you and DH? Would you want to go solo or stick with Christopher?
Either way it won't hurt to make your own contacts. If he can't see that'd benefit him too he's an idiot.

OP I hear what you're saying about not upsetting Christopher because he's a family friend, but I would then point out that he doesn't appear bothered about upsetting you both as a family friend. Especially after having given him your work for free. I wonder if you've appeared overly grateful to him and he continues to think you owe him.

You really, really don't. I also understand what you mean about him bad-mouthing you but do people really listen to that kind of stuff? I'd actually think badly of the person gossiping as it's not very professional. I wouldn't want to continue working for him, is there no one else you can approach now you've got the experience. I wonder if he wants you to not succeed in your individual project as it suits him to have u working for him for peanuts.

Sites gone down the shitter today. Every thread has multiple duplicates!
OP is this a TV production project? What can the payment in kind possibly be? Please do not say showreel/experience...

It doesn’t sound like there was a payment in kind. More like this was a two year audition/work experience.

@GiveHerHellFromUs - yes, very competitive - and yes, I think he does see us employees, and certainly our function has been to enable him to be the creative one, which may be why he doesn't want us to do something creative ourselves - although, my main job is a creative one, my qualifications are all in a creative area, and I've made no secret of doing all this to support our own creative careers.
Our project wouldn't be a money maker at all, and we have no money to fund it with, so it will be run on love and air, and the goodwill of anyone who wishes to help us. But the project might (if it's any good) get us noticed as creatives ourselves, and could potentially lead to better things further down the line (if we did enough little projects). Ideally, originally we were happy to go with Christopher's company if it allowed us some ability to be creative ourselves, but it seems that he won't allow that - it seems churlish to me to not allow us this small moment to shine as it's not going to affect his next project. (Unless, and this is not me blowing my own trumpet, but considering possibilities, he thinks our project is actually quite good and better than his ideas?) We've sourced a lot of other contacts for the project but it might mean using some of the contacts we made on the first project - but considering ours would be for one day, and his next one is planned to run for 6 weeks, it just seems - weird!?

Hi, we're sorry about all the repeated posts on this thread. We had a tech issue but the team have sorted it now - should be back to normal but please let us know if you're still experiencing issues.

So just tell him, thanks for getting back, we have decide to just run with our project and will find a way round the equipment issue.

Yeah, @SmellMySmellbow, you've nearly got it - it's in that ball park. I may as well come out with it, because if he or anyone connected reads the thread, they'll get it all anyway - it's a film production company, and DH and I got credits as Exec Producers.

@OfMe I completely understand where you're coming from now.

Would it be worth giving him a call to avoid any mis-communication via text? Explain to him that it's your project as you'd like to branch out with the creative aspects, which you didn't get to do in the first project. I'd suggest that it's in everyone's best interests to get as many good contacts on board as possible, and for everyone to work to their strengths, and that you're hoping this will help you and DH identify what your strengths are.

If you do want to work on the next project he has in the pipeline, it may even be worth telling him he's willing to join you in this project but make it very clear it'll be yourself and DH taking the lead, and if he wants it to have any affiliation at all to his company that you want the legal paperwork drawn up and signed before the project starts.

You can legally be partners even in the absence of a formal partnership deed. You need to get legal advice on your status.

I’m struggling to see how on earth you can justify working for free for such a protracted period. Christopher sounds like the ultimate cheeky fucker. I’m struggling to see what you can have had of value from him besides a rent free home or something. Very odd that you’ve signed no paperwork.

I would just normally call and chat, because we ran the whole thing by chatting endlessly on the phone, but I'm so upset by this, and so angry, I'm not sure I can without releasing a barrage of WTF on him. In all likelihood I'll send him a text tomorrow that says in a friendly way 'Ok, cool, no problem about not borrowing the camera, as we think we've sourced another, but give us a heads up if and when you want to chat about Project 2? We'll make sure our project is finished well in time for Project 2, in case you need us.' Ach, even that sounds wrong though - god, it's just all gone tits up with one flipping text! Bonkers.

I read it as he is fine with lending you the equipment but doesn't want you emailing the other partners about it.

@Mummyoflittledragon - unfortunately, this is how it goes in this industry. There's no value in roles outside of absolutely massive companies, because there's always someone waiting to undercut you, so everyone ends up working for free/min wage/credits/showreel footage. It's shit, but it's just the way it is.