Cultural Norms Giving Birth

[doadeer]

I'm fascinated by the different attitudes to pregnancy and childbirth in different cultures.

I would say in UK we are you going through a very pro "natural" phase - huge rise in hypnobirthing and midwife led birth suites. Strong vbac emphasis. Can be quite judgemental on elective c sections.

Colleagues from France were surprised when I said I hadn't thought about having an epidural as they said this is very common there.

A friend was talking about giving birth in Thailand where c sections are the norm with many hospitals not trained to deliver vaginallg. Another friend said it's similar in Cyprus.

It's so interesting. What are the childbirth norms where you are from?

I loved the British gas and air! After DS1 I had to have a spinal to stitch up my tear and I hated having the cannula and catheter in. So happy it isn't epidural or nothing in the UK! Also love that they let you go home quickly after a straight forward birth (DS2 went home at bedtime)
One thing I notice differently about the UK and Italy (where I'm from) is that breastfeeding/formula is a lot more contentious in the UK.

The French system very much has a "no medals for being a martyr" mentality, and a much more involved approach to getting you up and back to normal afterwards

Sounds super-sensible.

Here we seem to have the view towards childbirth, that it should be as unpleasant as possible, you're a wimp for wanting pain relief and a drain on the NHS if you want a c-section.

And there's zero emphasis on the importance of a mother recovering as well and as quickly as possible, so that she can, you know, look after the baby she's just grown for nine months. They just stitch you up and leave to get on with it.

Really interesting thread! Would be intrigued to know the stats of PND in the other European countries spoken about: Denmark, France, Netherlands compared to the UK?

My first birth experience in London was just hideous but when i moved out to Northamptonshire and we had DD2 I was very impressed with care. However, there's little to no real BF support!

I remember being in a park with a 4 day old DC2 because I was determined to prove to DC1 that his life wasn’t ruined by the arrival of his sibling. There was a group of Tamil women who kept coming over to look and in the end one of them asked could she take a photo, I said of course, but why. She said in their culture women didn’t leave their bedroom for 3 months after giving birth, so none of them had ever seen a newborn out in the wild before!

It's this narrative that childbirth pain is somehow 'good', or 'mystical' or 'spiritual' that gets my goat.
No, it isn't. It's merely an evolutionary compromise, the price we pay for bipedalism, nothing mystical about it. And if there's a way to circumvent it, why not?

Turkey- mostly c-sections are encouraged. No gas and air, painkillers, water births or epidurals used for natural births! Its really troubling. Mothers aren't treated very well by the hospital staff and doctors. My doctor said to me that I didn't do very well when giving birth to my second. Because I was in pain and complaining basically. It made me feel crap. If you are induced you won't get pain meds either.

Tsubasa1 That’s interesting but also sad. If given the choice of a natural birth with no pain relief or a section I’d definitely go for a section. The gamble would be too much for me. What do they do if they need to do an instrumental if they don’t do epidurals?

I find it fascinating how much cultural norms play a role. You’d think it would be much more evidence based in most developed countries without the vast variation. Post natal stays are largely so short here because post-natal wards are like a living hell. I like the idea of a patient hotel.

My friend gave birth in Belgium and said that epidurals are much more common, but largely because they're the only form of pain relief they really offer - it's do it with nothing but paracetamol or have an epidural. I actually didn't think that sounded great at all.

Italy (or at least the bit I live in, I think it varies dramatically):
Pregnancy - lots of scans, tests, check-ups. The mum's weight gain is very closely monitored, my gynaecologist was always threatening to put me on a diet! Free 12-week ante-natal course.
Birth: no gas and air, it's an epidural or nothing. If you want the option of an epidural you need to see an anaesthesiatist in advance. 'Natural birth' is increasingly trendy - birthing pools/showers, acupuncture, aromatherapy, midwife led-births etc.I was discouraged from an epidural until it was too late.
Aftercare - 3 days in hospital, 5 after a section. Partners couldn't stay overnight. Good breastfeeding support at hospital and access to lactation specialist afterwards; one home visit from a midwife then you have to go to the clinic for weigh-ins. Gynaecologist check-ups at 3 and 12 weeks (I think). Free baby massage classes.

I think women who have sections are heroes. I have two vaginal births, one with an epidural and one with no pain relief. The epidural birth was because they thought I might end up having a section due to dd1 being back to back. I had recurrent pain after. With dd2, I just pushed her out without any pain relief. I did feel a little bit like I'd turned myself inside out for a few days after, but there were little to no issues after. Having a csection is major surgery. The one thing I wish I'd had us more bf support.

Oh and the midwife looked at me in horror when I asked about forceps at my ante-natal class, I think they are rarely used now.

I've given birth once in the Czech Republic. There are strict rules surrounding birth (time to theatre, certain equipment, etc), so homebirth is basically illegal. Some midwives do do it, but it's not common.

You're seen by your gynaecologist throughout pregnancy with monthly scans (12 and 20 week screening additionally), then transferred to your preferred hospital a couple of weeks before your due date.

I chose a relatively small hospital, which boasted about its mother-centric ethos and low caesarean section rate. I didn't get much experience of the labour department though as I gave birth 90 minutes after arriving! I did feel rather pressured into agreeing to an episiotomy though ("small cut or biiiiiig tear, hmmm?"). I didn't have to ask for delayed cord clamping. I can't remember how long they left it, but perhaps 5 minutes?

My son was born on Monday morning and we left hospital on Friday morning. Normal delivery, nothing wrong with either of us, but that's what was expected. Accommodation was rather basic for the first couple of nights (I was in a double room but on my own), but then I moved to private room (paid), which was more like a hotel room (en suite, electric bed, seating area, etc). Food was the same, but delivered to my room rather than having to go and retrieve it from the common room on the corridor!

They did various tests while we were there - hearing, and a hip ultrasound for my son, and another ultrasound for me to check my uterus was shrinking normally.

I'm due number 2 in May so we'll see if the experience is the same! I don't want to stay in hospital for a week if I don't need to though!

I didn't get tea and toast, they said they weren't allowed to make toast anymore due to health and safety, I was offered bread and spread which was a bit of a let down. Love the NZ way of having the same midwife throughout, I practically saw a new midwife at every stage of my induction. No one helped me with breastfeeding either, DD latched once, bit me twice and then screamed her head off, noises were made about someone is breastfeeding support coming to see me but no one ever did.

Hope they don't get rid of G&A, that stuff is amazing. They ended up giving it back to me afterwards because I had a PPH and they had to press hard on my belly to get my uterus to contract and I could not have got through that without the G&A. And then they went off to do the paperwork and forgot to take it off me so I got me through a couple of hours of afterpains too!

I loved my tea and toast after labour! Best cup of tea ever. Even better with dd2, she was a homebirth so I got to have it from my favourite mug.

I sort of like the sound of the long stays from the support point of view but I'm a homebody, I just wanted to be home quickly with dd1 (she was born around 11pm, went home about 2pm the next day) and loved not even going to the hospital with dd2, so I'm not sure I'd like it in reality!

I was also in the park by day 2 with baby 2, wouldn't like being stuck indoors for days.

Britain it really depends where you are. My friends and family in London seem to all have had dreadful experiences. I'm in a mid-sized town and we have a baby friendly hospital and the care I had in labour and BFing support was excellent. After DS (DC3) was born (was about to be an ECS but came too quickly for that) a member of the theatre staff came to see me at the end of her shift and said he was the first natural birth she'd seen which was really nice. I was famous on the ward that day because things had happened very quickly and dramatically and they were all impressed with how I coped, made me feel very special.

I didn't like the long stay with my first baby, had to share a room with someone and I was just fed up and wanted to go home. Second time though I had a family room so OH stayed too and did all the baby care and I just rested and recovered and got to grips with breastfeeding.

While France does offer epidurals to almost any mother who wants them, it is impossible to get an ELCS and almost impossible to have a home birth. My neighbour gave birth at home with just her husband because the baby arrived before the paramedics, so for the second birth she had to pay 3,000 euros to cover the MW’s insurance for a home birth...baby number 2 also arrived before the MW.

I had all my three in Germany, with ten years between the first and last. Breastfeeding 'support' after dc1 was a bit catastrophic (only sheer bloody-mindedness and MN circa 2005 saved my bf), but the births themselves, although two of them were high-intervention and one had the potential to be traumatic, were fine, and there was mostly plenty of focus on me feeling informed and in control. With dc1 (the long drawn-out, potentially traumatic one) I got an epidural when I decided I wanted one and if at any point I had wanted a section I would have got it. I did ask for one at one point when I was getting nervous and the lovely MW said 'remember, you said you didn't want one - I'll get you ready and you can have it whenever you want but let's try this way first'. And dc1 was born vaginally albeit with ventouse. Dc3 was induced and the very young doctor who applied the gel apologised for the unpleasantness of the procedure. She was absolutely focused and lovely when I went from 2cm to birth in 20 minutes and ended up on the floor by the bed calling for help - helped dh lift me onto the bed and just about controlled her shock when a moment later I pushed dc3 out in her unbroken waters. I never had any sense of people thinking I was making a fuss, which is what you often seem to read on here about UK births.

I was in for a few nights with dc1 (complete with being told off for getting out of bed by myself the next morning), two with dc2 and left four hours after the birth with dc3, but would have had the option to stay if I'd wanted.

The post-natal MW came every day at first and then tailed off gradually - except for dc2's, who came about once, I think (which was fine as I was tandem feeding and the 6 week check is done at the gynae anyway). Dc1's and dc3's (different ones) were lovely, down-to-earth, slightly hippyish and entirely non-judgemental.

I've worked as a midwife and had a baby in both the UK and Canadian systems. I find British people are so down on the system in the UK, but in terms of choice of birthplace and mode of birth it is up there with the top systems in the world. Granted women often have a hard time accessing what they want, but there are not many other countries that offer everything from home birth to elective CS the way the NHS does.

Ah yes, the Germans find the concept of G&A decidedly weird. It's an epidural or nothing, I think.

In terms of the post-natal experience, I was in a 2-bed room the first time, on my own the second, which was wonderful (mainly because things were quiet, I think) and left the third time partly because I didn't really want to share again. Each room has its own bathroom. I got everything brought to me with dc2, was expected to get up for breakfast with dc1 (not the first morning, I think) but other meals were on the ward. When dc1 had to go into special care for a couple of days for phototherapy we got a family room with a double bed just across from the unit.

I went 10 days overdue with DC3 and Israeli MiL was aghast wondering why I hadn't had a c-section already.

I'm firmly in the c section only when necessary camp, but I give birth relatively easily (x3 natural births: no more!)

In Israel the vast majority of people seem to have an epidural and it's quite medicalised.

My friend who had her first in Canada hired a doula as midwifery had not long been legalised. Very medicalised there too. When she has her second in the UK she felt it a very hands off approach during pregnancy.

I had a great experience with all three of my births in Norway; I like how they do things here. High taxes but fantastic social support. They don’t get everything right (which country does?) but most things work for me and my family.
I asked DH what the best thing about giving birth in Norway was, and he said the plate of biscuits with a Norwegian flag, and fizzy apple juice in a champagne flute (priorities).

NZ. Whilst there is a lot of talk about natural births and breastfeeding, in reality it was very different. Due to lack of midwives or obstetricians in my area, I was ordered to a city at 8 months. There I lived in a motel for a month, bored and away from "my" midwife's. Turn up at hospital, get seen by whoever is on duty. Birth baby and get asked to leave 3 hrs later because they need the room. Get into car, drive 6 hours over snowy mountains to get home. Not great!