to want to move my partner and toddler to Scotland for a better quality of life and give my son a chance of being an EU citizen one day?

[mimeartist]

Hi everyone. Me, DP and 18 month old DS are based in SW England at the moment in a small market town. Has been ok for 3 years, we bought a house here last year just after my son was born. However I have always hoped that one day I'd be able to go back to Scotland where I grew up. This is largely because I think it's a beautiful city (edinburgh), much nicer quality of life, great place to raise kids and he'd have a lot of the opportunities I had growing up there which I loved. Also my Mum and sister are there and I feel I want to be closer to them. I find life quite boring in our current little town, especially since I being on mat leave and hence not having work to keep me busy. I love having a good cultural life as well and find it kind of lacklustre here from that point of view.

DP's family are a couple hours away in the Midlands, and most of our friends as a couple are scattered around London/South East predominantly. We are both doctors so we have been tied down here for work purposes until quite recently, and now we have the opportunity to move, either now or in 2-3 years before DS starts school.

I'm finding my DP's objections very selfish. He likes Edinburgh a lot as a city, but told me I'd be asking him "to turn his back on his friends and family". I just don't see it that way as Edinburgh is better connected if anything than where we are now. I'd miss my friends in the south too, but honestly, the priority as I see it is to move somewhere that gives us a better quality of life as a family overall, good schools, etc.

It doesn't help that I don't like DPs family on the whole, and think they are quite right wing and rude. I find DP is defending his wanting to be close to them, over my legitimately wanting to be closer to my folks, when I'm the mother and therefore I think that should be the greater consideration.

Every major life decision we've made together has been on the back of this kind of major reluctance/intransigence on his part, he calls it being "cautious" but to me it's a very "glass half full" attitude to everything. He worries about scots nationalism turning "nasty" if independence happens (like, English nationalism hasn't already turned nasty!?!?) and comes up with excuses as to why he'd never do it. He even said to me recently maybe I should move up there on my own with DS if I want it so much.

I've offered for us just to go and stay up there for a bit on an exploratory basis to see if we think it could work, but he doesn't seem open to that either. I don't really want my son to grow up in a small town/village particularly when he's older, and have to drive him everywhere to boot. But as soon as I say that, DP (who grew up in a village) says DS would be perfectly happy in a village.

Can anyone tell me what they make of this situation? Growing increasingly frustrated with him digging his heels in.

@mimeartist - good thoughtful answers - but I think that they do hint at a deeper discussion needed - ultimately it is not just about Geography but also about the balances in your relationship - how far will one go to make the other happy / who will sacrifice what / etc. - on marriage I moved to my wife's location (her job can't move, mine could) making me much further from my family but nearer hers - that was a conscious decision I took, even though not easy (her family are amazing though) - the locations of your family are challenging, but you and he have to work out what your priorities are - if you and he are saying that location is more than relationship then that comes with all sorts of implications...

Neither of you are in the wrong. Can't see this ending well as whatever you decide one will always be resentful of the other. Hope it works out.

We are in Edinburgh. There’s more childcare after the age of 3, free prescriptions, arguably more more centre left government and an increasing appetite for independence but look critically at the education system and the health service too. It’s not all rosy.

His family live 2 hours away? I appreciate that's far closer than Scotland to where you are now, but it's not really living close to his family to my mind. Just closer than yours I guess.

Its a tricky one, you aren't insisting you go NOW, but giving him a few years to consider it, which seems fair . But I do get his reluctance to commit to upping sticks to what is basically a different country , with a different vibe to the South West of England he seems to like and enjoy , as I'm pretty risk averse too.
I'd be quiet on this for a bit now, you've made your bid, hes doing what cautious people do when faced with a big change and likely closed it down harder than he possibly really means,in a panic, without really thinking it through.

Say no more for a while let his cogs grind a bit. He doesn't have to decide right now does he? No one likes to feel pressurised into life s decisions - not saying you are doing this but he may feel that's the case - and you might find if you relax he will be more open to discussion down the line? I doubt he really would stay behind, though. That's just panicky talk to try to shut you up!

If

@Louisianna16
I'm sure that's sound advice, and yes you're right he is panicking and shuttting down the conversation which is him at his absolute worst. he has sometimes said we could go up there and try it out for a short period, but then he always backtracks. I think the idea of locuming there for a bit to suss it out, is probably the only way to resolve it once and for all.

thanks everyone for your helpful comments and perspectives, much appreciated. :-)

He has nothing to lose by giving it a go.

If you’re getting more family support re: your child then that is invaluable. It’s lovely to be near involved grandparents.

I think re:independence and rejoining the eu.... even if it doesn’t happen due to governmental processes- your son would be more likely to grow up around people who aspire to the same ideals as you. Which is also invaluable.

You’ve done all the facilitating this far. It’s DP’s turn.

"If you’re getting more family support re: your child then that is invaluable. It’s lovely to be near involved grandparents."

This with bells on.

I live in Edinburgh and I have to say I would never leave as its got so many things going for my children and it is an amazing city

I would move there like a shot if there was a family connection. Edinburgh is my favourite city, I just love it there. I am from London but my sister went to uni there and it's a fab place to live. Plus the scots wpll soon be leaving us and re joining the EU I expect. Keep trying to talk him into it!

@TrollTheRespawnJeremy
You’ve done all the facilitating this far. It’s DP’s turn.

^ Also this with bells on.

@mimeartist your mother is flying weekly from Edinburgh to take care of your child for crying out loud. As in for both you and your DP. Your side of the family is totally holding up its bargain and it almost feels like he's taking you for granted. It may not be his intention but things are the way he likes it now but that's because your side has been bending to his will for a while. He needs to budge on this I think.

OP, there are some serious drawbacks to consider. Firstly, the SNP have penalised anyone on higher earnings, with extra income tax bills.
As doctors, you would each lose over £2,000 a year in extra tax, compared to doctors in England. Over a thirty five year NHS career, that’s a loss to your combined family income of £140,000. One of the reasons why we’re struggling to recruit doctors up here - there are consultant and GP vacancies all across Scotland. Several practices are staffed entirely by locums or taken over by local health trusts.
Property prices in Edinburgh are horrific and rising by 6% a year. Both my DDs live there, and despite well paid graduate jobs, they could only afford tiny flats with the help of a £100K deposit each.
There is no prospect of Scotland rejoining the EU. We have an 8% deficit. The EU maximum acceptable is 3%. We’d need savage austerity and 25% tax rises to get anywhere near that.
There is an ongoing risk of Scottish independence. If (God forbid) it ever happened, you’d be living in a bankrupt country with no currency, no central bank, no armed forces for defence, and no way to afford its own health, pension and benefit bill.
I’d take off your rose tinted specs and think very hard about the supposed delights of this move of yours. I’ve been a doctor in Scotland for 36 years (now retired) and I’m seriously considering moving to England if independence ever arrived.

So your mum comes down to cover your work days?Does he just do his work as he wants and leave you to sort out childcare?
As for nursery,you need to try again and let him settle or you'll have a child that has trouble adapting to school.
As your child gets older you may need family help less and putting aside Brexit think about why you really want to move,your DH is not going to budge so you need to weigh up your options as regards your relationship and career.

I find DP is defending his wanting to be close to them, over my legitimately wanting to be closer to my folks, when I'm the mother and therefore I think that should be the greater consideration.

No.

You decide as a family what is best for you all. I love Edinburgh, lived there for a while myself. With the chance of Scotland becoming independent and rejoining the EU, that should be a massive consideration.

I see why you want to move but this,

when I'm the mother and therefore I think that should be the greater consideration

is bollocks.

Your wants and wishes don’t have greater importance than his.

Well the EU thing is unlikely our debt is to high to get into Europe as an independent country just saying so don't base anything on that and unless you can afford a big mortgage for Edinburgh burgh central there is some real shit holes here as well .

Being English living in Scotland isn’t easy - we did it for 5 years for work and whilst we had a great time I wouldn’t go back permanently.
This is never going to resolve itself and you really should have thought about it before having kids - how did you end up
Moving away from Scotland in the first place?

I don't like his tactic of shutting down discussion by telling you to go on your own. That's very manipulative. Saying that, your claim about taking precedence because your a mum, is bizarre.
You've both become entrenched. Why not look for a compromise? Edinburgh is quite far from the SW. Could you try another Scottish town that puts you both at commuting distance from your respective families but allows your DC to benefit from Scottish education system/fees, etc, and allows you both to have a better social/cultural life?

Tbh, I think you should have discussed this before having children. Does he have any friends in Edinburgh? Would you still see his family on a regular basis if you relocated? Of course, your family is important but his family is important to him too. If you have friends and family in Edinburgh and he has none, it will be a huge change for him. You will have an existing support network and he will not.

I would not base this on whether Scotland is likely to become independent and successfully apply to join the EU. The fact is that you will not be in the EU whether you live in England or Scotland, under the current circumstances. He might as well say he wants to stay in England because there is a chance the UK might become a republic and apply to become the 51st state in America. There is always a minute chance anything could happen.

The education system here at the moment is not great to be honest. I have 2 in secondary education and the cutbacks are obvious for everyone to see. The teachers are amazingly committed though. At my dcs old primary school the head teacher is now only there 2 days a week as they are now in charge of 2 schools, the janitor too is working at both schools, it's not great and my friends who teach there are at breaking point.
Having said that having a child with a life threatening illness I have nothing but praise for our health service, we really couldn't fault the treatment they receive.
Edinburgh is a great city, if you grew up here in the 80/90's I'd say you'd find it a much nicer place now

Maybe you should both compromise and move somewhere else entirely. Move to Australia, doctors get paid properly there and the work environment is much nicer. If you move to a smaller city you could get a large house and easily afford good private schools. You’d see a genuine improvement in everyone’s quality of life. Here I think that you you say you’ll have a better quality of life you are actually just thinking of your quality of life.

@mimeartist I don’t agree at all with nationalism being some kind of threat to English people in Scotland. It’s certainly not my experience. Many people who spread these sorts of views just don’t agree with an independent Scotland. Which is fine but no reason to pretend there is some sort of widespread abuse

@Babdoc if you’re retired now you can’t ever even have experienced the different income tax rates in Scotland. Also considering Scotland has proportionally fewer job vacancies for GPs than England, it would seem highly unlikely that income tax rates are what has led to a recruitment crisis. Also Edinburgh is expensive compared to Scotland but compared to South East of England where op lives not necessarily.

lots of interesting points, thanks everyone!
I grew up in edinburgh in the 80s, there was definitely anti english feeling back then (and my birth family were english so I felt it!) but I do hope/think that has changed...

I hadn't realised the extent of the staffing probs in the nhs (or schools) in scotland though. however for trainees the training still seems to rank among the top deaneries in national training surveys...

i would love to move abroad somewhere different, but agaiN DP is not keen and just shuts it down whenever i mention it really. I think there must be a deep insecurity there, why else would you be so terrified of doing anything other than maintainng the status quo...

I do get it would be a huge change for him, and i have acknowledged that,...but Ithink if he had his positive lenses on he might also see the potential.

we should def have thought this through more before DC came along, but TBH at that time I don't think we realised how tricky the childcare situation would be for two doctors.