to want to move my partner and toddler to Scotland for a better quality of life and give my son a chance of being an EU citizen one day?

[mimeartist]

Hi everyone. Me, DP and 18 month old DS are based in SW England at the moment in a small market town. Has been ok for 3 years, we bought a house here last year just after my son was born. However I have always hoped that one day I'd be able to go back to Scotland where I grew up. This is largely because I think it's a beautiful city (edinburgh), much nicer quality of life, great place to raise kids and he'd have a lot of the opportunities I had growing up there which I loved. Also my Mum and sister are there and I feel I want to be closer to them. I find life quite boring in our current little town, especially since I being on mat leave and hence not having work to keep me busy. I love having a good cultural life as well and find it kind of lacklustre here from that point of view.

DP's family are a couple hours away in the Midlands, and most of our friends as a couple are scattered around London/South East predominantly. We are both doctors so we have been tied down here for work purposes until quite recently, and now we have the opportunity to move, either now or in 2-3 years before DS starts school.

I'm finding my DP's objections very selfish. He likes Edinburgh a lot as a city, but told me I'd be asking him "to turn his back on his friends and family". I just don't see it that way as Edinburgh is better connected if anything than where we are now. I'd miss my friends in the south too, but honestly, the priority as I see it is to move somewhere that gives us a better quality of life as a family overall, good schools, etc.

It doesn't help that I don't like DPs family on the whole, and think they are quite right wing and rude. I find DP is defending his wanting to be close to them, over my legitimately wanting to be closer to my folks, when I'm the mother and therefore I think that should be the greater consideration.

Every major life decision we've made together has been on the back of this kind of major reluctance/intransigence on his part, he calls it being "cautious" but to me it's a very "glass half full" attitude to everything. He worries about scots nationalism turning "nasty" if independence happens (like, English nationalism hasn't already turned nasty!?!?) and comes up with excuses as to why he'd never do it. He even said to me recently maybe I should move up there on my own with DS if I want it so much.

I've offered for us just to go and stay up there for a bit on an exploratory basis to see if we think it could work, but he doesn't seem open to that either. I don't really want my son to grow up in a small town/village particularly when he's older, and have to drive him everywhere to boot. But as soon as I say that, DP (who grew up in a village) says DS would be perfectly happy in a village.

Can anyone tell me what they make of this situation? Growing increasingly frustrated with him digging his heels in.

I am biased because I plan to move to Edinburgh as soon as the DC are finished school. However, village life will be very different now to what your DP remembers. How available will he be for all the taxiing around that will inevitably follow? I imagine not very if you are both doctors. Ironically your DS will likely have more physical freedom in Edinburgh than where you are now!

Well, neither of you are wrong. You both have a preference and they happen to be different.

Every major life decision we've made together has been on the back of this kind of major reluctance/intransigence on his part, he calls it being "cautious" but to me it's a very "glass half full" attitude to everything.

A 'glass half full' type of person usually means they are an optimist - you mean he has a 'glass half empty attitude to everything'?

@ThisIsBigMoon thanks - are you planning to move there partly in the hope of escaping the worst of brexit?

@clavinova sorry yes I meant glass half empty!!! oops!

Personally, I think as you’ve lived in his preference for three years, you should get a turn at yours.

OP, I get the impression that this is a conversation you have frequently and bring up new 'justifications' each time, like brexit - that's not going to change his mind.

How do you think you are going to escape brexit in Scotland?

It doesn't help that I don't like DPs family on the whole, and think they are quite right wing and rude. I find DP is defending his wanting to be close to them, over my legitimately wanting to be closer to my folks, when I'm the mother and therefore I think that should be the greater consideration.

Growing increasingly frustrated with him digging his heels in.

Not sure this has anything to do with location really - but communication - working out how you go together into the future...

Why are you the greater consideration?
Why does your being mother make any difference?
Why is your family more important than his?
Why do you feel that he is digging his heels in - are you doing the same?

ultimately:

• growing up in a village is fine, lots of children do and it canhave great benefits
• Edinburgh is also a lovely place to be
• the boat has gone on being an EU citizen - there is zero chance of another referendum in Scotland in the next decade plus, and even if independent, Scotland would never meet the requirements to join the EU.

I think that you both need to step back and talk about what you want together out of your relationship...

@ChicCroissant I don't think we'd escape it necessarily, it's just that its a great place to live for loads of reasons, it feels a lot more forward looking/progressive politically than the south in many respects AND potentially if scotland becomes independent then there's at least a chance of it rejoining the EU, whereas for England I see no such hope.

I can understand your hankering for "coming hone". I can equally understand your DH's reluctance, as it is a big move for im. But I don't think it is at all fair of him to veto any discussion on even looking into it. The comment about you and your son moving up here without him would have me worried too, I can't imagine telling my spouse that I'd sooner live that far apart from them and my child, than even try living elsewhere.

@akkakk
hmm, good questions!
Why are you the greater consideration? - I don't think I am but I think the fact my mum would be around to help with childcare would also give us more time as a couple and therefore it would benefit all of us, not just me

Why does your being mother make any difference? because I think as the mother I am carrying a greater mental/emotional load and to be the kind of mum I want to be, I don't want to put him in nursery full time so at least it would help with my mum being around the corner

Why is your family more important than his? Objectively, they arent more important, however, he's been down here near with his family for ages, whereas I've been hundreds of miles away from mine for far longer

Why do you feel that he is digging his heels in - are you doing the same? Well I've said given we only bought a house here last year I"m happy to stay another 2-3 years but that I would very much like to move at that point, to somewhere bigger/with more going on. And he basically said no. So now I feel trapped! argh

I would if ours were still little. The education for Uni, is much cheaper if you live there too.

Not to escape Brexit, no. Quality of life for us. We think it is the perfect city. Creative, dynamic, but you can walk pretty much anywhere. Though property is expensive by Scottish terms, it is significantly cheaper than where we are now, so we could have a decent home for less money too. Plus The Meadows, plus Salisbury Crags, plus the beaches!

YANBU to want to live in Edinburgh because it's an amazing city and because you'll be closer to your family.

I think you may be criticised for this comment:
"I'm the mother and therefore I think that should be the greater consideration"
However, during pregnancy, childbirth and maternity leave, it is fair enough for the mother to be want to close to her own family for support.

You've already tried living near his family and you're not particularly happy. It would be fair to try Edinburgh. He is being selfish not to consider it.

"He even said to me recently maybe I should move up there on my own with DS if I want it so much."
Perhaps you should take him up on that.

How committed are you both? You are not married; is that a mutual decision or does one of you want it and the other not?

Well I think it's complicated.

YANBU to want a better quality of life for your child/family and if you think that's in Edinburgh, then fair enough to have this discussion with your dh.

He is not BU to point out that the Scottish nationalist situation is at times very ugly and devisive. The way I understand it, there are nationalists who pursue nationalism and nothing else. Whatever goes on politically is twisted into an excuse to have another referendum. It is also ironic that nationalists are so hell bent on splitting from the UK, but on the other hand wanting to join the EU. Clearly the type of relationship is different, but to me, these objectives jar. I am not surprised he doesn't want to move into that situation. English people have been subjected to abuse. The people in the border communities don't want separation and that should tell you all you need to know.

I think you are BVU to suggest that a plus factor of moving to Scotland is that chance for your ds to one day be an EU citizen. So what? It's a million miles into the future with lots of unknowns.

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with your village by the sounds of it, you want to move closer to your family. It is fine to feel that way, but not fine to dress it up as having to drive your ds around when he's older. That is bizarre.

You are asking him to give up his job, network, his life setup basically. It's alright to ask, but reaslistically you need to expect him to not be thrilled about all of that.

I think you need to separate absolute fact (want family) from extrapolated random shit (driving child around) and go from there in your discussions with him.

@GruciusMalfoy

Thanks - yes I think that's what's underlying it, is a sense that he'd rather stay down here ON HIS OWN than even try living somewhere new. It makes me feel like we are doomed wherever we live. I'm not sure if he said it just to be provocative

@mimeartist had your mother agreed to provide free childcare? I do find it odd that people assume their parents would want to provide a feee childcare service having already raised their own children. Occasional babysitting yes, regular childcare so you can “spend time as a couple” (whatever that means) is another matter.

@AnotherEmma
thanks. we are not married, I would have liked to get married before we embarked on kids, but as I am a little older than him, plus the fact I would probably prefer a civil partnership (only recently become an option!) we did agree we would prioritize that, and to be fair to DP, he is a very devoted and hands on father, and I don't think he would ever leave me , which is why his comment about me moving up on my own came as something of a surprise...

Probably not the point of the thread but whilst Edinburgh is a great place to live, it has its challenges too. Being a tourist here is lovely I'm sure but living here through multiple ongoing Festivals at different times of year can be difficult, and housing is expensive (even for doctors). I'd be really careful of assuming the grass is greener.

@BritWifeinUSA yes she would agree to two full or half days, which would reduce his time in nursery and also if we had a second it would be an absolute godsend! SHe has actually been flying down from edinburgh every week for the past 6 months to cover my work days (two days a week) because I could NOT get him to settle in a nursery or childminder when he was 12 months old. So the other option is she moves down here, but I feel thats a lot for her to give up her life in edinburgh when we may not even stay here long term anyway

I'd love to live in Edinburgh. Lovely city, lots of nice countryside nearby. Equally he is entitled to not want to live there. But I'd be concerned about the way he is shutting down discussion - a flat no due to missing friends and family. Why is his family more important than yours? How often does he see his friends and family now? How often does his family see your son? Does he not think he would make any new friends (like lots of people do when their kids are pre school age). Is there any compromise? Would you be able to rent there and locum for a year to see how you both found it and then take it from there? Is he being serious about you going with your son? This comment would worry me - I'd be concerned about his love for his child and how he felt about the future of our relationship

@zasknbg thanks, that's all thought provoking and helpful. I see what you are saying. I realise it's a big move for him... maybe I need to see the benefits here too, which I do try to

@newhousestress yes my mum does complain about the year round festivals too!!

Brexit is a red herring. Even if there were to be another referendum (which is highly unlikely) there’s still. A good chance that the majority would vote no. And even if the majority voted yes Scotland wouldn’t meet the criteria to join the EU, so would be a much smaller country on its own.

That aside, moving for your family is never going to end well. Firstly, the promises of childcare/regular visiting/closer relationship almost never come to fruition because people already have established lives at the point you start expecting their help. Added to which expecting regular childcare from your mum could well backfire if she’s not up for giving regular childcare to your DS, esp as you’re saying you want to use her because you don’t want DS to be in nursery full time. Does she know about your expectations?

I have been on the other side of someone’s wish to move for their own means. It was all about them and the DC and what would be best for all of them with absolutely no consideration to what might be best for me and what giving up an entire support network meant for me. I felt I had no choice but to move, and less than a year later we split and got divorced.

you need to have a conversation to talk about valid reasons for wanting to move, and having childcare from someone who probably hasn’t offered it yet and Brexit aren’t one of them.

@OoohTheStatsDontLie
that's exactly what's worrying me too, that comment BUT he does have an unfortunately tendency to come out with things like this to almost "test" the situation when he is feeling pressurized. not saying that's great behaviour, but I've a feeling he doesnt really mean it...

@OoohTheStatsDontLie and the other thing is we DON't see much of his family or friends at the moment anyway, as so busy with work usually. I honestly think we could maintain at least the same level of contact if not better, if we were in edinburgh