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AIBU?

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Original poster

Family want us to give financial gift back....

275 replies

Liskenly · 30/01/2020 11:58

A couple of years ago DH's grandfather gave us a substantial financial gift (he was very wealthy). We'd brought a house that needed a huge amount of repairs and this money funded all of the repairs. We never asked for this money it was a spontaneous gift - his view was that we'd make better use of it than he did. We were very close to him and cared a lot for him prior to his death late last year. He has sadly now passed away. He has left the main part of his estate to be split between his 12 grandchildren (many of whom haven't seen him in the last 5 years). They are now insisting we give the gift back (taking it from the inheritance) so it can be divided between the 12 grandchildren with the rest of the of the estate (it has turned rather nasty). We're not wealthy, but we are comfortable, but can't afford to give back the money - basically it means we'd have to give £10k back to them as well as not have our 'share' of the inheritance. I've not met 5 of them but now recieving really nasty emails, texts etc. What would you do?

OP posts:
Barbarella1 · 30/01/2020 15:28

I’m glad the estate is using a solicitor.

I wouldn’t engage with those moaning.

RoyalMail · 30/01/2020 15:29

@Shadyshadow have you read the posts at all? The OP’s DH’s grandpa didn’t give them £325K or anywhere near it. Also the OP is not talking about inheritance tax, it is that the other cousins expect to have the whole gift paid back.

NurseButtercup · 30/01/2020 15:30

This happened to my friend, her mother gifted X amount to her as a house deposit and renovations to a new property. Unbeknown to my friend, her mom told her sisters it was a loan. When her mom died, her sister who was the executor for her mom's estate deducted the amount of the gift from her portion of the estate and said my friend owed £££ to the estate aka funds were due to the other benefactors of the will. My friend told them to eff off because there was nothing in writing to say the £££ given was a loan, it was mentioned in the will, but my friends mom didn't leave anything to her or name her in the will.
It caused a lot of upset for several years.

Barbarella1 · 30/01/2020 15:34

Hopefully Adachi the OP will ignore your advice and listen to the solicitor with regards the legal position.

Plus your figures are pure speculation.

Shadyshadow · 30/01/2020 15:35

have you read the posts at all? The OP’s DH’s grandpa didn’t give them £325K or anywhere near it. Also the OP is not talking about inheritance tax, it is that the other cousins expect to have the whole gift paid back.

Jesus wept. Keep your knickers on. I was referring to the post before mine talking about inheritance tax rules and just saying if that was the case I wouldn't take any further money.

Sorry my posts dont pass your test of what's ok.

Oh....no I'm not

ChicCroissant · 30/01/2020 15:36

As the gift is so recent, it would come under IHT for the full amount (40%) so in that respect, whether the money was still part of the estate or a gift the IHT paid would be the same.

The beneficiaries are likely to see the amount of the gift plus tax as being taken out of the pot though. So they won't be thinking of missing out on a share of £50k, they will be thinking they are missing out on a share of £70k - but the tax of £20k would have been paid anyway.

OP, if there are others that have received gifts from him in the past it's hardly surprising that they will be on your side really!

IntermittentParps · 30/01/2020 15:47

We will hand this over to the solicitor who is dealing with all of this.
Good decision. Don't engage with the ones being nasty.

JudgeRindersMinder · 30/01/2020 15:48

Ignore them and do not engage.

Are these relatives going to go to Tesco and ask for a refund on all his shopping? The money has been SPENT, it is not and never has been part of his estate. It was his money to do with as he wished

Collaborate · 30/01/2020 15:51

Ignore them. You don't have to pay it back. That would be disrespecting your grandfather's wishes, as he made the gift without altering his will. Take the entitlement under the will. It's what the GF would have wanted.

Perhaps the attitude of these 5 now is the reason why he never gifted them anything during their lifetimes.

Bluegrass · 30/01/2020 15:53

I don’t think the OP should feel obliged to refund the IHT the gift will cost the estate. The timing is unfortunate but it is what it is. If there are beneficiaries who feel unhappy with what the estate is worth where does their grievance end. Should they examine every gift the grandfather ever gave (including a house apparently) and feel disgruntled that they don’t get a share of that either!

The law determines what the estate is worth, the tax payable and the amount available to distribute. It is not for the OP or any of the beneficiaries to start interfering and overlaying their own sense of justice by second guessing who deserves what.

Bluerussian · 30/01/2020 15:59

They can't do that Liskenly. Ask a solicitor for advice if you want to be sure. What DH's grandfather gave you was a gift and nothing to do with inheritance. It is a pity anyone else knew about it though.

Some people are just so mean, why they cannot just be pleased with what they have been left, I don't know.

AndThenThereWereSeven · 30/01/2020 16:02

He probably gave it to you as he knew what a nasty lot they are. Ignore.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 30/01/2020 16:04

I think morally you owe the tax on the gift you received and possibly legally too.

BlouseAndSkirt · 30/01/2020 16:05

Leave the solicitor to distribute the estate under the terms of the will and ignore them all.

It is unfortunate - and treating grandchildren differently risks causing resentment and jealousy. If I was wealthy and had helped one of my children out substantially I would make equivalent provision in the division of the will so that they all benefited the same overall.

But harassing you to refund a gift that was freely given some years ago is out of order.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 30/01/2020 16:07

Yes, your best bet is to hand the whole situation over to the solicitor who is dealing with the estate but also maybe check with an accountant if you know one. Do not be guilted into giving away any inheritance - but I agree that you may consider it is fairer to pay some portion of the inheritance tax back into the pot .

letmebefrank · 30/01/2020 16:11

Ignore and block them. You haven't done anything wrong. They have, though. They weren't close to him, didn't visit, some for 5 years!, didn't help him when he needed it, but now show up when there's a potential inheritance. they can fuck right off.

agonyauntie2020 · 30/01/2020 16:13

OP can you come back and explain a bit more? Many people have raised questions that, if answered, could help us advise you better.

Somerandompersons · 30/01/2020 16:22

Do not hand rely on the solicitors dealing with the estate. They act on behalf of the executor only.

Please take independent legal advise.

Genevieva · 30/01/2020 16:28

The law exists the way it does for a reason. Gifts are gifts. If they fall within 7 years of death, inheritance tax on that gift is owed by the estate of the person who has died. It is not owed by the recipient of the gift. Beneficiaries of a will receive their gift after all inheritance tax has been paid, including inheritance tax on gifts given in the seven years before a person has died. What beneficiaries think is fair or unfair is irrelevant. There is an established legal process that needs to be followed and there is no legal obligation to deviate from that.

The only exception to the above is when a gift is deemed to be part of 'normal expenditure'. If, instead of giving someone a very large lump sum, a person gave them a smaller lump sum every year for several years, and this amount was smaller than their annual income (from pensions or any other source) then the gift could be outside inheritance tax because it is 'normal expenditure' even if it is above the c.£250 per person per year allowance. In the OP's case, I am not sure that this helps, but it is worth knowing.

AlwaysCheddar · 30/01/2020 16:28

Ignite them!

AlwaysCheddar · 30/01/2020 16:28

Or just ignore them!!!

SchadenfreudePersonified · 30/01/2020 16:31

No - I think igniting them is the way to go!

Grin
Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/01/2020 16:32

In terms of amounts we we're gifted £50,000, the inheritance is around £40-45k per child

Not saying I'd agree with them, but I relise that would wind some up into saying "you've already had your cut", and it's now even more involved because others have had gifts too

Leaving aside IHT complications I still don't think they can do anything since a gift is just that, but I just hope the will was crystal clear ... too many hand out lifetime gifts with some casual remark about "taking it off the inheritance" but then do nothing to alter their wills, and before you know it everyone's at everyone else's throats

The old saying "where there's a will there's an argument" is there for a reason Sad

Gingernaut · 30/01/2020 16:35

AdachiOljulo has it right.

IHT is payable on gifts given by the deceased, if the Tax Man believes the money was given away in an attempt to dodge IHT.

The sums look right as well.

Dagnabit · 30/01/2020 16:36

ignite them!

A step too far imho... Grin