Family want us to give financial gift back....

[Liskenly]

A couple of years ago DH's grandfather gave us a substantial financial gift (he was very wealthy). We'd brought a house that needed a huge amount of repairs and this money funded all of the repairs. We never asked for this money it was a spontaneous gift - his view was that we'd make better use of it than he did. We were very close to him and cared a lot for him prior to his death late last year. He has sadly now passed away. He has left the main part of his estate to be split between his 12 grandchildren (many of whom haven't seen him in the last 5 years). They are now insisting we give the gift back (taking it from the inheritance) so it can be divided between the 12 grandchildren with the rest of the of the estate (it has turned rather nasty). We're not wealthy, but we are comfortable, but can't afford to give back the money - basically it means we'd have to give £10k back to them as well as not have our 'share' of the inheritance. I've not met 5 of them but now recieving really nasty emails, texts etc. What would you do?

Don't engage with them. Don't negotiate with them. Talk to a solicitor.

The second word is OFF!

Don't give it back, contact a solicitor and pursue your share of the estate as it was when he died. The gift was a gift and totally irrelevant, the chancing greedy bastards

How do they all even know about it?

You obviously don’t understand how probate works.

How long ago was the gift made? It may be included in the value of the estate if less than 7 years ago, and iht payable (although only if it goes over the threshold).

And all this over, if I understand it correctly, 10.000/12=833 pounds per individual.

Another one for ignore them.

If you felt so minded you could agree not to take your 12th share as you have already received a generous gift, but I wouldn't give any money back. It was given to you. If he had lasted another 5 years, it wouldn't have been relevant and unless he said it was a loan in his will or exchanges with his solicitor he made that gift knowing that it would reduce the pot overall and was clearly comfortable with it.

basically it means we'd have to give £10k back to them as well as not have our 'share' of the inheritance

It sounds as if he gave you quite a lot and this is the sort of thing that can so easily cause issues if the others didn't know about it, but there's probably nothing they can do

If the GF freely chose to give you the money and didn't make any provision in his will for it to be "taken off your share", they'll just have to suck it up no matter how sore they feel about it

Not knowing you or him or the conversations that were had, I can only add that it depends whether the gift was intended as your share of the inheritance early. We won't know as we weren't there.

Id let a solicitor deal with this.

Put it all in the hands of the solicitor and ignore any direct approaches from them.

As the money was given less than 3 years ago, and if the amount given is more than £3k (which it clearly is), and if his estate is worth more than £325k the OP is almost certainly liable for the inheritance tax on it unless he has written something different in his will.

So she really can't ignore it, because she will be hit with a huge tax bill at some point.
She needs to take legal advice, and she might find she's be pretty lucky only to need to be paying £10k back, people have had worse shocks.

And all this over, if I understand it correctly, 10.000/12=833 pounds per individual.

We don't actually know the sums involved Bogushan.

The £10K is a bit of a red herring - OP says they've been asked to repay £10,000 AND not receive their share of the inheritance, which could be anything from a further (say) 20k to 100k (wild guesses - I have no idea, obviously), so it would be much more money than £800 each.

Whatever it is, to my mind the GF's money was a gift to OP and her DH. The others are being greedy buggers. There is much jealousy and spite involved. AND - I am not a lawyer, so my opinion is just that and of course, is based on OP's post - I'll bet if one of the other GC's had posted it would be an entirely different perspective. (Not being nasty here OP, but you know what I mean.) The fact that the family are trying bullying tactics and not challenging the will suggests to me that they are in the wrong, but they may just want to avoid legal costs if they can.

A lawyer could read the will, look at the gift and the circumstances, and step back from it all to give an opinion.

Of the gift was included in the inheritance tax calculation, I can see how it pissed people off

OP got a big gift and they will get less money because of that. It's all quite petty really.

OP, as others have said, get legal advice.

Missing some info here OP:

Any specifics mentioned in the will about loans, gifts, or otherwise?

If the money was gifted in the last 7 years you are liable to pay inheritance tax on it.

You need legal advice actually, not Mumsnet.

I thought the advise from mn when the question is the other way around is to make sure that the borrowed / gifted money is taken off the inheritance??

Im sure there was another post recently from someone asking about what to when you are being fiddled in relation to a will

I haven't RTFT as lunch break about to end. There is a legal presumption that such gifts are a "portion" of your inheritance where you are a member of a class benefiting equally. But it is only a presumption and not a hard and fast rule - basically it depends what the donor intended. So the other grandchildren may have a point. I'm not aware of any rule that your Portion has to be repaid if it is bigger than your share though. It may be a thing but I've never heard of it (I'm a Wills and Probate solicitor). I would start with asking the solicitor who drafted the Will if your grandad gave any specific instructions on this point and go from there.

I'd be pissed off if my cousin took a pile of cash from my GD then got an equal share in the will.

There's a huge amount of misinformation about IHT here that the OP would do well to ignore.

From the information given, it's not possible to ascertain whether the gift is liable to IHT. You'd need to know exactly what other gifts the grandfather made, if any, and when these were made; the full value of the estate, whether he was widowed and has any transferable nil rate band available from his late wife etc etc etc.

It might be that he hadn't made any previous gifts and could use 2 x £3,000 annual gift exemptions (this can be carried forward for one year if unused) so £6,000 of the gift would have been tax free and the remaining £4,000 would be added back into the estate. If his residual estate was valued at less than £325,000 then there's no IHT to pay.

But like I said, it's impossible to work it out based on the information given.

Assuming the gift was a gift and not a loan, you're not obliged to pay it back and even if for some reason you wanted to, it couldn't just be distributed by the executors as part of the estate because it no longer belonged to your grandfather anyway.

It would be very unreasonable of you not to repay the IHT payable on the gift. Yes, legally it is payable by the estate, not you, but it seems extremely shitty for the other legatees to be, in effect, paying tax on your substantial gift.

It was clearly a very substantial gift, and as PP have said any gifts made within 7 years of death come under - and have to be declared - for inheritance tax.

The estate will need to pay the tax, there is a sliding scale but as this is so recent it will be almost full-rate. This will take money out of the estate for the remaining beneficiaries, so apart from the initial gift I can see their point tbh.

What proof do you have that it was a gift and not a loan, because that could help?

It would seem that the gift is larger than the potential inheritance, as they would have to forgo their portion of the inheritance AND repay £10k for all the beneficiaries to receive the same amount.

Witchend my understanding is that the IHT comes out of the estate unless the deceased has given away more than £325,000 in the 7 years prior to death and then the recipient may be liable.

IHT is liable on estates over £325,000, but that’s a different thing. It also doesn’t take account of the fact the allowance may have doubled in the case of married couples e.g. if mum passes wealth to dad who subsequently dies, he can pass up £650,000 before IHT has to be paid.

I’d take legal advice because if the executor isn’t using a solicitor, they might decide not to pay the OPs husband his share. Totally illegal but not unheard of.

FloraPostIt I thought the double portion situation was only when the testator was the parent of the beneficiaries? I could well be wrong.

" I'd be pissed off if my cousin took a pile of cash from my GD then got an equal share in the will."

But Op's husband didn't take anything-he was given it.

Isn't it the GD you should be pissed off for not treating all the GC equally?