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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that anyone can get in university nowadays?

329 replies

Darkdecent · 29/01/2020 06:47

I know a woman who's studying to be a social worker and while I don't think for one minute she's stupid I certainly wouldn't put her down as uni material.

For example, she was a strong supporter of Alfie Evans parents and was outraged when they turned his life support machine off.

Do they just let anyone in certain universities now or am I underestimating her?

OP posts:
Oliversmumsarmy · 29/01/2020 09:52

Everything now is geared towards those that are academic.

You can’t get into courses to do plumbing, bricklaying, electrics etc without a list of GCSEs

Ds did a trade at level 2. Last year where his college allowed in people who hadn’t got English or Maths (which you could do as an extra lesson )

He is severely dyslexic but was top of his class with a near perfect score in his trade course (either 97.5% or 98% average mark on all tests)

He really enjoyed the course and wanted to go further but he can’t because he doesn’t (and never will have) English language GCSE

Until we stop making everything about academics then we will never move forward.

Dd looked at colleges and one she was really interested insisted on Geography and RE GCSE.

The course (completely vocational) had absolutely nothing to do in any shape or form with Geography or RE.

Dds school didn’t even do RE. And she dropped Geography in year 9.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 29/01/2020 09:59

TBH - I think it's more the other way.

MANY people - even less "academically inclined" ones, would be capable if getting a degree (even in a proper "subject" eg not meeja studies) if they were prepared to put in the amount of study required. It probably wouldn't be a first, but they would achieve a degree.

However, I do think that it is easier to get some degrees than it used to be (because it is possible to pay a fee and just download someone else's work to submit) and that the emphasis on coursework contributing to final school marks for A levels (Do they still have these? I've lost touch) entry into uni makes that easier as well (and those essays can be bought, too).

As result people who aren't prepared to graft, or who have no interest in their chosen subject can coast quite nicely if they can afford the costs of essays.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 29/01/2020 10:02

Oliversmumsarmy

Absolutely agree with you that practical courses and apprenticeships should be available.

There are many professions/trades where you could have theoretical knowledge coming out of the wazoo, but have NO IDEA how to do the job in real life.

And unfortunately we see it every day. Incompetence in action.

louderthan · 29/01/2020 10:08

I work in HE and absolutely endorse the notion that anyone should be able to go to uni regardless of background/financial situation, and am a huge supporter of widening participation.

What I don't agree with is the hot-housing of young people into university at the age of 18, when they have no real idea of what they want to do with their lives, what sort of career they might want etc and what degree might help them with that.

I also think that as a society we should place more value on careers that don't always require a degree. I was brought up with the belief that I had to go to university and that if I didn't I would be a failure. I think this has had a largely detrimental effect on me and my self esteem-as an adult.

woodchuck99 · 29/01/2020 10:13

Whilst some universities have quite low entry criteria it's as hard to get into others as it ever was. I don't just mean Russell group universities when I say that. Some others including a few ex-polys are are also hard to get into for some courses. The value of the degree depends on where you get it from. It's not like A-levels or GCSEs with a centralised standard but surely everybody knows that already? Employers certainly do.

The degree I did is much easier to get on nowadays but the degree itself isn't any easier and there are quite a lot of failures.

woodchuck99 · 29/01/2020 10:19

I think there's a lot of snobbery about the democratisation of education. Back when only 6% went to university, it wasn't the brightest that got in, it was the richest.

If you are talking about the 60s, I know plenty of people from working-class backgrounds who went to university including my parents. It wasn't just the rich at all although they were all arguably "privileged" to the extent that their parents valued education and didn't make them leave school when they were 15.

Kazzyhoward · 29/01/2020 10:23

There are many professions/trades where you could have theoretical knowledge coming out of the wazoo, but have NO IDEA how to do the job in real life.

Why is why "professions" usually have further exams and work experience to complete before you become fully qualified.

Such as law and accountancy. A law or accounting degree doesn't make you an accountant. You still have to get a job, do usually at least 2/3 years of relevant work experience and take further professional exams before you are admitted as a member to the Law Society or Institute of Chartered Accountants. Same with actuaries and independent financial advisors.

We were at a uni open day in an accounting & finance degree subject talk, and a few of the potential students were surprised when the lecturer started talking about some modules giving you exemptions for the ICAEW exams, when they thought the degree meant you'd go straight into the ICAEW at the end of it. Then, one rightly asked what was the point of the degree if you have to do ICAEW exams anyway.

Tangerinesandlemons · 29/01/2020 10:26

When I was young, many years ago now, approximately 5% of the population went to university. I had 9 GCEs (not GCSEs in those days) and 3 A levels, but I still didn't consider myself to be university material. I don't know the percentage of the population that go to university now but I'm certain that it is no longer 5%.

Kazzyhoward · 29/01/2020 10:27

If you are talking about the 60s, I know plenty of people from working-class backgrounds who went to university including my parents. It wasn't just the rich at all

Yes, same here. A couple of lads from our street went to uni, and they certainly weren't "rich" - they were just normal, with normal parents. The lad straight across the road from us had a SAHM and a father who was a hospital porter - he got the bus every day to our nearest Uni as they couldn't afford for him to move away.

atomicblonde30 · 29/01/2020 10:40

@Hadtoask

You seriously think getting onto a social work degree is easy as pie and just anyone can waltz into one?

That is absolutely not the case, it’s a HCPC regulated applied health degree, there are strict unbending requirements that if you don’t have you don’t get on, it’s that simple.

malylis · 29/01/2020 10:52

5 percent when to university in the 50s and early 60s, before the Robbins report and changes to HE.

After this it expanded rapidly, by the mid 70s 15 percent went to University and about another 10 to other HE institutions (Polys etc)

Prior to Robbins, University grants were much rarer, so yes it was mostly the well off that went.

Imonlydoingwhatican · 29/01/2020 11:01

I had 2 gcses c grade. I always was told i was slow and stupid. Never achieve etc. And my facebook posts would jave backed this up as my spelling and punctution was terrible. I was made redunant at 28 and saw the opportunity to try something else, i applied to uni never expecting to get a place, i did. During my 3 years i learned so much about myself not just the subject. Turns out i was dyslexic i was offered assistance to combat it. I left with a first and top of my class.person most suprised by that was me.
Dont write people off, if you dont give people the opportunity how can they prove themselves capable.

woodchuck99 · 29/01/2020 11:11

Prior to Robbins, University grants were much rarer, so yes it was mostly the well off that went.

I know people who went in the early 60s who weren't well off. I don't know whether they got a grant but it would have been relatively easy for them to get jobs compared with today and also get benefits if they couldn't get a job. Perhaps living at home would be more common too.

Reginabambina · 29/01/2020 11:15

@WardrobeJumper sending someone to university alone won’t make them educated. If anything, dumbing down degrees to widen participation means that borderline students that might have been pushed into being educated through the threat of failing no longer reach that level of intellectual development because they can pass without it. I know an awful lot of people who come out of university very ignorant, indeed they are so ignorant that they are ignorant of their own ignorance. Education is not a piece of paper.

malylis · 29/01/2020 11:16

Not saying it wasn't impossible to get a grant, you could. They were rarer though.

TabbyMumz · 29/01/2020 11:17

Now there are many people I went to school with, who went to uni, and are working for NMW. They're highly unlikely to ever pay off their loans for studying.
Some of this is down to life choices though. I know someone who actively means to work below the wage limit just so as she doesnt have to pay the loan. She had ample opportunities to progress and get more pay, but doesnt want to.

woodchuck99 · 29/01/2020 11:18

Not saying it wasn't impossible to get a grant, you could. They were rarer though.

They were rarer than today as grants don't exist. Students have to take out a loan. Also unlike the 60s they have to pay tuition fees via loan as well.

woodchuck99 · 29/01/2020 11:19

were weren't

MrsStrangerThing · 29/01/2020 11:25

I just thought that most people with half a brain thought the doctors and nurses had done all they could, she wouldn't have it. But that's for another thread

So you make blind assumptions whilst your friend researches and uses critical thinking to form her own view - yet you think she is the unintelligent one? Confused

Social worker recruitment absolutely should not be restricted to only traditionally academic people, also it is not an easy course to get into (in my local unis anyway!). You are being incredibly short sighted here, and perhaps a bit jealous?

woodchuck99 · 29/01/2020 11:36

So you make blind assumptions whilst your friend researches and uses critical thinking to form her own view - yet you think she is the unintelligent one?

What kind of critical thinking and research could she have done to become more qualified than doctors and nurses to decide whether a life support machine of someone she doesn't even know should be turned off? She wouldn't even have had an in-depth knowledge of child's medical history fgs.

malylis · 29/01/2020 11:43

There were doctors who disagreed.

FishCanFly · 29/01/2020 11:44

While it is good that anyone can get university education, the degrees have significantly fallen in value. They no longer guarantee a job, and there are graduates stocking shelves. Also employers got spoiled, requiring the lowest level staff to have a degree. This isn't good.

BloodyGlasses · 29/01/2020 11:44

Fml, your a judgy mare Biscuit

malylis · 29/01/2020 11:48

There are graduates stacking shelves, but the majority of graduates are in graduate level positions by about 5 years after they leave. About 30 percent of graduates work in non graduate jobs, but there are a vareity of reasons.

Japan has more.

MrsStrangerThing · 29/01/2020 11:49

Wood, thats the thing - it isn't about qualifications. This assumption then anyone with qualifications automatically knows best is dangerous. I say this as a HCP myself..... The number of times I hear 'I will do whatever I am told...'- I always say no, I will give you all the information and options and we will make a plan together.

Perhaps the friend read the details of the case and formed her own view? She is more than entitled to that without being ridiculed. A social worker who thinks parental input is very valuable - umm, sounds good to me.