Vaping colleague: problem

[northernstar0412]

Hi, I've been offered a permanent part-time job at a place where I've worked occasionally as a freelancer for some time.

The pay is good and it's a nice office, where I get on with everyone and the work is enjoyable. I've struggled financially for a while as a freelancer and this security, albeit part time, will really help.

I was there in recent days and a colleague was sitting across the desk from me vaping. I am asthmatic and I started to cough and it triggered a mild asthma attack. I still don't feel right today. This colleague was the person in charge for the night, and I didn't know what to say or do, so I just suffered in silence.

I rang a friend afterwards saying I was thinking about bailing out of the job offer because of this. He is not the big boss but the deputy supervisor and he is a really nice bloke and I get on with him well. I don't want to get him into trouble either or be the office "grass" and have everyone hate me!

My friend suggested talking to him about my health issue and saying that I would need to sit a reasonable distance away from him if he is vaping at his desk. She said this would be better than going straight to the more senior boss who's offered me the job and saying that this is an issue for me, as a starting point. Then if he carries on or I can't resolve it, to take the next step of telling the big boss.

I know for a fact that it is not company policy for people to vape inside the office but it seems to be tolerated in this department. I would be embarrassed to leave a job after a couple of months because of this.
What would you do?

I don't think vapour will clog up the vents on your machine and I didn't claim it would.
I think people are being a bit defensive. I'm not trying to ban vaping, I just don't want to inhale it myself, and I'm surprised its still legal in places where smoking is banned. I was told it wasn't and took that at face value.

Regardless of the legalities of vaping in the office, it stinks. That is why it should be taken out of the workplace.

I didn't actually take asthma into account, I said earlier the things we took into account.

You said employees don't have to tell their employer if they are asthmatics, so employers need to take into account that someone might be and remove triggers as far as possible.

Employees don't have to tell their employer that they are trying to quit smoking. So why don't you have to take into account that they might be?

It all seems a bit inconsistent.

If you have vapers in your workplace you can almost 100% guarantee that they are either smokers who are cutting down or attempting to quit, or they are ex smokers who have a greater or lesser risk of relapse (the risk never entirely goes away, even for the most evangelical ex smoker).

Of course you haven't faced a legal challenge. Nobody gives a shit about smokers and smokers know that. It's been drummed into them so hard that in itself it has become an obstacle to quitting. Why should smokers care about their health when the entire world tells them they are disgusting and worthless?

Long term smokers, most of whom started smoking when they were children, face a 50% chance of early death, losing on average one decade of life. 96,000 deaths per year in the UK. It's the biggest cause of health inequalities in the UK and the biggest preventable cause of early death in the world.

But it's all fine because you are very unlikely to face a legal challenge for putting obstacles in the way of their quit attempts.

You do you, as the youngsters say.

Hey folks, I had to dash off to work so didn't get chance to read all your replies but I am making my way through them now. Thanks so much for all of your insights and sterling advice!

The vaper I need to speak to is off for three days so when he gets back I will email him and ask for a chat. If he still does it in front of me then he gives me no other choice but to go over his head.

I still feel unwell - with a tight chest - more than 24 hours later.

I don't understand why you didn't just say something there and then rather than let it give you an asthma attack

VanGoghsDog, thanks for your support. I'm with you 100%.

LangClegsInSpace, I am still feeling unwell over 24 hours later because a colleague sat opposite me and exhaled his vapour in my direction, which irritated my lungs. Not only do I have asthma, I had another lung disease for two years which required heavy medication to recover from and I got the all-clear earlierthis year.

But you seem to think it's okay for a colleague to blow his vape in my face. Nice. You sound a treat.

Brit, he is my boss - he is in charge when the boss above him isn't there! And I am about to join the company's permanent staff. I thought about it but I struggled with it as I really didn't know what to say. I was devastated and far too emotional to discuss it rationally so I needed to get out and get some headspace and advice.

Truth be told, Brit, my first reaction was to bail out of the job offer but my friend - an ex-smoker herself - said, No way - it's not your fault and he is being selfish!

I'm sorry you are still feeling rough but I don't understand why you think that gives you the right to make such baseless accusations.

Talk to him, don’t quit over it!!

Fair point LangClegsinSpace. I did think I'd gone overboard with that comment, thinking about it. My apologies.

Thanks Nomel. Yes, I'm going to talk to him. I'm off work tomorrow, which will do me good as I can stop focusing on it and feeling panicked. I'll talk to him when I get back.

Why on earth WOULDN'T you just speak to the person concerned as a starting point?? Absolutely baffling why so many people seek more complex solutions to problems so immediately without informing the people involved that there's actually a problem.

I definitely wouldn't leave your job if your happy there with everything else. I would speak to him and explain it gave you a asthma attack and ask him to be more considerate, and if that fails go above him.

I am a vapor, on a vape with HUGE clouds, but would never ever vape in a public office and would always either go outside or directly stick my head out a window, as I can appreciate its unpleasant for those around me. (Dont even like vaping while I'm walking outside if people are walking directly behind me, and try and stand down wind when I go outside to vape so my colleagues dont get a faceful)

@smithecat I seem to have been held to the law as misquoted, and explained upthread. I was under the distinct impression that all workplaces has the same laws as for smoking.

Blame the many H+ S misapplications. At least I know better now! Power of Mumsnet, again...

But I am going back to the source I was given... See what it really does say!!!!

Ah ha! Business Matters... very poor. I'll report that forward to DHs employer... They can then at least be honest, that it is their policy not law that forces all the papers outside.

Bloody hell of course he shouldn't be vaping in the bloody office. I doubt anyone else is that keen on breathing it in either!

Employees don't have to tell their employer that they are trying to quit smoking. So why don't you have to take into account that they might be?

Because being a smoker, or giving up smoking, is a CHOICE, not a disability, unlike asthma (and other lung diseases like lung cancer, emphysema etc).
I'm sure even you can tell the difference between an employer's duty to someone DISABLED and someone making a lifestyle choice.

But whether you can if not, the law does. Disability is a protected characteristic, being a smoker, ex smoker, giving up smoker or vaper, is not. So the potential for irritating disabilities MUST be taken into account in health and safety risk assessments and reasonable adjustments considered and made. The potential for smokers to fail to give up - that's on them.
And there are other ways to give up that don't involve being so anti social.

If employees speak to their employer about trying to give up smoking most employers I've worked with would offer support. But I doubt very much that support would stretch to "vape in the office next to your colleague who has asthma". It might be "well, for the next few weeks you can take more frequent, short, breaks", which seems reasonable to me.

But I don't know anyone who vapes to give up smoking, all the vapers I know just vape to vape.

No worries northernstar

VanGogh under H&S law you have a general duty to ensure the health, safety and welfare of all your employees. While there may be additional things to think about if you have employees with disabilities, including the requirement under the EA to provide reasonable adjustments, you still need to assess all the risks for the whole workforce.

Here is what HSE says about vaping:

Electronic cigarettes

HSE does not enforce legislation or standards for e-cigarettes.

E-cigarettes are not regulated like tobacco products and there is currently no bespoke regulatory system for e-cigarettes in the UK, but they are captured by general product safety regulatory requirements.

HSE’s advice is that an employer needs to consider e-cigarettes in the wider context of risk in the workplace. We are aware that some organisations have banned their use but this is not something HSE has advised on. Employers may want to ask for advice on this from Public Health England: [email protected].

Some organisations may find the Will you permit or prohibit electronic cigarette use on your premises? (PDF) - Portable Document Format document useful. It sets out five questions to ask yourself before deciding whether to permit or prohibit e-cigarette use on your premises

If an employer decides to 'prohibit' the use of e-cigarettes in the workplace but allow for ‘vaping’ breaks or provide areas where employees can use e-cigarettes, the employer needs to ensure that those who use e-cigarettes are not put at risk of harm from second-hand tobacco smoke.

www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/smoking.htm

But I doubt very much that support would stretch to "vape in the office next to your colleague who has asthma".

Nobody on the thread has suggested this yet you are the second person who has implied that this is my argument. It's very strange.

all the vapers I know just vape to vape

Then they will be ex smokers with a greater or lesser risk of relapse. Almost without exception.

So now I'm feeling differently tonight. I don't think this is something I'm willing to compromise on. I'm not going to talk to the vaping deputy supervisor, I'm just going to talk to his boss - the guy who has offered me the job and who I've been negotiating terms with, and I'm going to tell him I would love to join the team but I can't if colleagues are vaping, because of my health issue. That's it.

Thanks to those people who told me to stop being a doormat. You're right. I am one. But I don't have to carry on being one.

And I'm not avoiding the vaper because I'm scared, but because I don't think he is going to change and there is little point. But if I negotiate this as a condition of joining, it puts me in a better position should the problem occur again. And if the deal is off, I am better off out of it because my health is too important.

Good for you, OP, and good luck!

Nobody on the thread has suggested this yet you are the second person who has implied that this is my argument. It's very strange.

That will be your lack of compression skills coming through, yet again.

The colleague in the post being discussed was who I was referring to. Not everything is about you.

Then they will be ex smokers with a greater or lesser risk of relapse. Almost without exception

Nope. I know vapers who have never smoked.

I also happen to know a large number of ex smokers who have never vaped, including most of my family 🤷🏻‍♀️

The colleague in the post being discussed was who I was referring to.

Neither her prospective employer nor anybody else has suggested it would be reasonable policy to say "vape in the office next to your colleague who has asthma". I therefore find it difficult to see how it's at all relevant but maybe that's just my pesky lack of 'compression' skills again.

Nope. I know vapers who have never smoked.

Yes, there are a few. 6.1% by the latest ASH figures. However only 4% of those are daily vapers and if they are not vaping every day they are unlikely to even consider vaping during working hours. 0.24% of vapers are never smokers who vape daily, or about 8780 people in the country.

ash.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Use-of-e-cigarettes-among-adults-2019.pdf

OP, in earlier posts you said, he is a really nice bloke and I get on with him well and I don't think he'd want me to have an asthma attack and I have a good working relationship with the vaper. Yet now you say, I don't think he is going to change and there is little point - when you haven't even mentioned to him that it's an issue

Do what you want, of course, but I'd feel a bit pissed off if a colleague had a problem with me and, instead of just mentioning it, went straight over my head in the first instance.

I'm out now, I've had enough of the incredible rudeness from VanGoghsDog.

Good luck OP, whatever you decide.