Vaping colleague: problem

[northernstar0412]

Hi, I've been offered a permanent part-time job at a place where I've worked occasionally as a freelancer for some time.

The pay is good and it's a nice office, where I get on with everyone and the work is enjoyable. I've struggled financially for a while as a freelancer and this security, albeit part time, will really help.

I was there in recent days and a colleague was sitting across the desk from me vaping. I am asthmatic and I started to cough and it triggered a mild asthma attack. I still don't feel right today. This colleague was the person in charge for the night, and I didn't know what to say or do, so I just suffered in silence.

I rang a friend afterwards saying I was thinking about bailing out of the job offer because of this. He is not the big boss but the deputy supervisor and he is a really nice bloke and I get on with him well. I don't want to get him into trouble either or be the office "grass" and have everyone hate me!

My friend suggested talking to him about my health issue and saying that I would need to sit a reasonable distance away from him if he is vaping at his desk. She said this would be better than going straight to the more senior boss who's offered me the job and saying that this is an issue for me, as a starting point. Then if he carries on or I can't resolve it, to take the next step of telling the big boss.

I know for a fact that it is not company policy for people to vape inside the office but it seems to be tolerated in this department. I would be embarrassed to leave a job after a couple of months because of this.
What would you do?

I would have thought most people would be horrified that they had given you an asthma attack and be happy to sort it out (by going elsewhere to do it at the very least). I assume he didn't know you had asthma before.

Your friends advice is sound.

I vape and wouldn’t consider doing it in an office or in a place where people were uncomfortable with me doing it and I don’t even smoke one of those overbearing types that produces a lot of cloud and strong smells.

Have a chat with him; if necessary you could suggest he goes into 'stealth vape' mode. It's when you hold the vapour in for about 5 - 10 seconds before breathing it out. At that point there are no vapour particles, and it's just like normal breathing out. He won't be filling the air with vapour, but just his breath from his lungs and it will carry the same stuff as his breath usually does. iyswim.

Could you say, hey, i know this is awkward and im new but I have asthma and vaping can trigger it. Would it be possible to either not vape in the office, or otherwise is there somewhere else I can have my desk

I know its illegal but I think asking for another desk is the most tactful way to handle it.

@Thelnebriati

I know its illegal..

Is it?

It's not illegal.

I had no end of trouble introducing a no vaping rule in one workplace. It seemed like common sense to me but no, a few people were up in arms. They suggested I was picking on them because I knew they did it, which I didn't as I didn't work in the same part of the office as them!

Please be blunt. You're a nice person, so your version of blunt will still be polite not rude.

"Hey John, when you vape inside I have an asthma attack and I can't breathe. I'd really appreciate it if you stuck to vaping outside."

I had no end of trouble introducing a no vaping rule in one workplace.

Did you have any specific reasons for doing this, aside from 'it seemed like common sense to me'?

@langclegsinspace Vapour is potentially just as harmful to inhale as cigarettes and clouds of strawberry scented twatwaffle floating across the workplace is antisocial at best. That's probably why.

@Weetabollocks

langclegsinspaceVapour is potentially just as harmful to inhale as cigarettes

Is it? Care to share your sources?

That's not correct Weetabollox. Here are the first three paragraphs of PHE's policy guidance document:

Smoking is a uniquely harmful activity. Despite continued declines in smoking rates, it remains the leading cause of preventable illness and premature death in England,with the damage spreading far beyond smokers, to their families and others around them, to their communities and to wider society. The estimated total annual cost of smoking to society in England, including lost productivity and health and social care costs, is £13.9bn.

Legislation under the Health Act 2006, which prohibits smoking in enclosed public places and workplaces, on public transport and in vehicles used for work,is based on conclusive scientific evidence of the direct health harm caused to bystanders through the inhalation of secondhand smoke.

E-cigarette use, known as vaping, is not covered by smokefree legislation. E-cigarettes do not burn tobacco and do not create smoke. While debate continues about their absolute level of safety, the consensus across England’s public health community is that e-cigarettes are significantly safer for users than smoked tobacco. An independent review of the latest evidence published by Public Health England (PHE)in 2015 found that, based on the international peer-reviewed evidence, vaping is around 95% safer for users than smoking. It also confirmed the findings of PHE’s 2014 independent evidence review, that there is no evidence of harm to bystanders from exposure to e-cigarette vapour and the risks to their health are likely to be extremely low.

Agree that there's no need for a massive drama about this, many employers don't allow vaping inside but many do too, perfectly legally in England- either way just politely ask if he wouldn't mind either vaping elsewhere (no need to specify where) or if you could move desks as it sets off your asthma. No different to if someone was spraying aerosol or perfume around (also not illegal but can set off respiratory issues!) - if he's not a total arsehole he'll be completely fine about it. If he is a total arsehole then you have a bigger problem than the vaping, but either way don't turn down the job offer over it FGS!

No sources. My understanding is that they haven't been tested sufficiently or been around long enough to know the risks thoroughly enough. There are thousands of different formulations. Are they all as safe as one another? A lack of evidence of harm is not the same as evidence of safety.

I'd much rather not be forced to inhale second hand chemicals deliberately released into the air near me for another person's gratification, thanks.

nicotine in vaping is still a vasoconstrictor & an irritant to the lungs which is why it affects asthmatics which is why for someone who is disabled by asthma to ask for a reasonable adjustment ie smoking their vapes elsewhere -
tobacco.ucsf.edu/more-evidence-e-cigarettes-are-bad-cigarettes-blood-vessels-time-skin

Oh yuck, I thought it was covered in the same way as smoking. I hate the smell. It aggravates asthma and allergies, and its not good to do around computers.

Maybe this will help your understanding:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/e-cigarettes-and-heated-tobacco-products-evidence-review

I can't believe it's legal to vape in an office. That is actually quite horrifying. As a previous pp said I would not want to be inhaling chemicals and being forced to endure the disgusting smells that come from the vapour. It cannot be good for anyone.

From what I've seen from people vaping there seems to be a heck of a lot of smoke.

We shouldn't forget that cigarette manufacturers used to use doctors in adverts recommending a specific brand of cigarette. I can imagine that in the future they'll probably discover that vaping is equally bad for you.

From what I understand tobacco manufacturers are also involved in the manufacture of vaping products.

It's like banging your head against a brick wall
Fine, vaping in offices is not right, like I wouldn't vape in a church
But the same old crap is dragged out about chemicals, they haven't been about long enough, just as dangerous as cigarettes
Now imagine saying that to someone who has quit smoking with one. They are likely to think "didn't get this shit when I was smoking, if it's just as dangerous, fuck it"
SUPPORT vaping and less people smoke. Or I mean we could all go back to smoking if it's just as lethal
Try reading the links. It's 95% safer and that's FOR THE PERSON VAPING let alone bystanders

Sorry, i know this is of no help to you, but I'm really shocked that vaping is allowed in an office space.

SUPPORT vaping and less people smoke. Or I mean we could all go back to smoking if it's just as lethal

No problem supporting people who want to vape. All I'm asking is that they don't do it indoors where I've got no option but to join them.

Why is it not good around computers ? Don't get the link at all .

Fair is fair, I hold my hands up to being educated from the links shared. Still doesn't mean I want to be breathe in a cloud of ritcheous pineapple ta.

@LangClegsInSpacez

Obviously I never considered having a proper reason to bring in a workplace policy. 🙄

It came from a Health and Safety risk assessment in fact. We reviewed all the advice and most did seem to suggest that not allowing it was preferable. Also the charging aspect - we had people bringing the charging units into work and charging them, we didn't PAT test these and we didn't allow other types of personal electronic equipment.

Plus they did set off some of the more sensitive alarms - not smoke alarms, but in the loos there were different alarms that were like a sort of soft alarm. Didn't set the whole building alarm off but did mean facilities had an alert on their screen and had to go and investigate. We were forever getting contacted by building management and being told the alarms were on yet when we brought in the policy and I mentioned alarms one guy said "I blow straight into the alarms and nothing happens". I was like, right, well, something does happen, I get an email from building management so maybe if you hadn't been doing that we would not have considered banning it!

I also just generally considered it would be an anti social thing to be doing.

Despite this, I was agog that anyone thought it was reasonable to object to such a policy. Several people thanked me and said they had not wanted to complain but they hated it!

mumwon

nicotine in vaping is still a vasoconstrictor

Yes, in the short term, much like caffeine.

& an irritant to the lungs which is why it affects asthmatics

Not really. It's all the other shit in cigarettes that affects asthmatics.

which is why for someone who is disabled by asthma to ask for a reasonable adjustment ie smoking their vapes elsewhere

Not really. People with asthma can be affected by all sorts of environmental pollutants including ecig vapour. Nicotine is highly unlikely to be the culprit because it's not a lung irritant and is present at only very low levels in second hand vapour. You'd probably get more nicotine from eating an aubergine stew than you would from sharing an office with a vaper for the whole day.

The article you posted was about a study in 58 rats and measured necrosis of surgically created skin flaps. It has nothing to do with lungs. I can't access the full paper but from the abstract it doesn't seem to have much to do with nicotine either. The rats exposed to the medium nicotine strength vapour had much higher levels of necrosis than those exposed to the high nicotine strength vapour.

I do love a good Stan Glantz article though. I bet he needed clean underwear after writing that. Shame about the sexual and racial abuse and academic fraud lawsuits.