Personal hygiene

[Halloweenbabyy]

I have made a couple of posts regarding my mother recently- she’s a manic depressive and her behaviour is 9/10 unacceptable.

She does come to visit every other week. The thing is, and forgive me for sounds horrible, but she absolutely stinks, it’s foul. From her general body odour to her breath.

We currently have a leather sofa, I sit at one end and she sits at the other and I can smell her breath from that far away. When she leaves my front room/sofa stinks. Thankfully it’s leather so it can be washed, but we’re getting a new fabric sofa in a week or so.

How do I tell her she stinks in the nicest way possible? She’s erratic and cry’s at everything then talks about wants to be dead ect if you say anything that’s she doesn’t like. It needs to be said to her, I just literally have no idea how I’m going to word it.

@helberg yah dad lives with her. I think he’s just used to her general behaviour and just tells her what she wants to here, it’s easier for him that way.

For argument sakes - once I’ve had my child I’ll be returning to work and child to go into childcare. My mother was hysterical over this, she went into a mood and said I was selfish and cruel and pushing her out. I said this wasn’t the case at all, it’s because she’s has arthritis and won’t be able to manage it and that’s it’s unfair and potentially dangerous. My dad sided with her That I was been cruel but also agreed with me that she couldn’t do it 😐

Would it be possible to call her GP and speak to them? It sounds like her medication either doesn't work or she doesn't take it and then get her to see the GP (having prepped them up).

Ah yeah I’ve made various phone calls to the Gp about this I’ve discussed it with all of the drs from hospital consultants and her GP. I had her put on antidepressants. She says she takes them, but if she does is another thing. I’ve discussed CBT with her and getting her referrals for CBT. I’ve talked about upping the dose of her antidepressants also she says she will or then she doesn’t need them.
I think the long of it all is that she needs to be needed, and she was needed by my sister but no longer sees her. She cries daily to me over my sister and there is nothing I can literally do about this. It’s becoming difficult for me to listen to as I suffer from anxiety and depression, it’s hard on me mentally to listen to her cry everyday over the same thing.

I would not allow your mother to be in the care of the baby or any child. She is clearly ill and abusive to you. I think social services should be asked to step in. You do not need to even have contact with her if you do not want if she is mean to you. And you should not feel any guilt about it.

You're not selfish, you need to put yourself first, frankly. And no wonder your sister stopped seeing her. You have the right to stop as well.

By all means you have to have boundaries in place to protect yourself, but it does sound like your mum is really very unwell.

From some of the replies, it's so sad to see the stigma of mental health still in evidence.

It's not a case of 'choosing' to be better, sometimes those suffering for a long time believe it's hopeless and they feel completely unworthy of feeling better; it's self-destructive and that's a symptom of how much pain they are in.

What luckystar777 said.

Once you have a child your focus will be on the child, & if you have problems with anxity & depression (not surprising given the way your parents are), you'll need to make sure you have enough support for yourself & not expend your energy on trying to fix someone who won't be fixed.

Agree. I think people judging op harshly have clearly not experienced this with a parent. My dad sounds very similar to op's mum. I've done everything to try and help him but nothing works and he'll just insult me saying I don't do enough. There's no easy solution and I think some people just can't be helped and won't change. It's extremely hard for family, being the emotional punch bag especially if you're the only one that still has contact with them.

Your mother has a husband. If he's not going to tell her that she smells (or do anything about the hoarding, or make her take her medication, or defend you against her abuse) you're never going to be able to change anything.

To those saying you should be kind and support her - well that's not always easy. And I'm afraid an abusive parent doesn't always deserve that. If she was alone I can see how guilt might kick in. But she's not. She's your dad's problem.

In my case both bros. ceased contact because of the abuse their wives received. I was then left to deal with DM alone. Took me another decade to say enough.... The ones who bail first leave the last one with a concentrated mess.

I think @LakieLady has great advice -there's nothing you can really do to change her whole life other than the support you obviously have already tried and offered, but showing your understanding and love while asking her to do this one thing for you on her visits is not at all unreasonable, and may have positive knock-on effects.

OP, there's a good chance she knows, as she's obviously not washing/brushing her teeth - in which case she may not care.

It sounds like your dad needs to take more responsibility, at least for the state of the house.

I have a relative who also stank in a deep depression, gently pointing it out did help but it sounds like your mum has bigger issues like an aversion to using water or energy for washing clothes.

Your mother has a husband. If he's not going to tell her that she smells (or do anything about the hoarding, or make her take her medication, or defend you against her abuse) you're never going to be able to change anything

This ^^

I hadn't realised she has a DH still living, so his presence is yet another reason to ease off the contact a bit ... oh, and to use an answerphone to screen out some of the painful calls

My father is bi-polar and is just like this. His flat is like something you would see on a television programme about hoarders and the way he smells is actually unbearable.

My sister and I have tried to help but he has to be in control. On the occasions he did let us clear up his flat (a truly horrible job), he would just sit and watch us and order us around. And within weeks it would be back in its original state.

Money is no issue for him - he has plenty. He could get a cleaner or a PA or whatever but won’t. He is utterly self-absorbed.

I’m afraid I have completely cut him off; I won’t see him again. If he had been a half-decent father during my life I would have tried harder, but he was an absolutely awful father my whole life. I think he is also a sociopath and narcissist to boot.

Ignore anyone on here who says you should be doing more. It doesn’t sound like your mother has been a good parent either. As someone upthread said, often there is simply nothing you can do to help these kinds of people. At which point, as far as I’m concerned, if they’ve been a bad parent you should put yourself first and set boundaries - including not putting up with her coming to yours when she stinks. And if you feel like you want to walk away for good, you’d get no judgment from me.

It’s not always possible to separate the personality disorder from the person.

"Mum, sorry, but you need a bath adn a hairwash." There's no nice way to phrase and the more you pussy-foot around the worse it is. Say it outright, sympathetically of course, but gets the words out clearly and unequivocally.

She might get angry, that's a defence mechanism. Let her rant, wait quietly for her to finish. Then you can talk to each other sensibly. If she storms out, then you've done what you can and now she knows.

This will sound harsh but I would stop inviting her over unless she makes the effort to brush her teeth, shower and put on clean clothes to see you. She can still avoid personal hygiene every other day of the week if she insists, but I think it’s beyond unpleasant if she has listened to your concerns but still comes over in last night’s PJs - with a odour so strong that it lingers on your furniture. She can call you instead if she doesn’t want to respect your wishes.

Yes, I know she has depression but it doesn’t sound like she’s making steps to help herself if she’s avoiding personal hygiene and refusing to take her prescribed antidepressants. This doesn’t sound like a temporary blip.

You ask ‘ I’m unsure if it’s depression what us contributing to her poor hygiene,..’

The short answer is YES.
The lack of self-care is a significant aspect of severe & enduring MH problems.

As much as she pongs & this gets up your nose, tap into your compassion & try another approach.

She is ill, very ill.
Had she a bad back, arthritis or a broken leg, you would not be giving her ‘stuff’ or talking at her about what she cannot do. You would be offering to help, & offering kindly so that she may trust you & accept your offer of help.

If that means, broaching the subject gently when she is with you, running her a bath, sorting out some clean clothes whilst she soaks, so be it.

Some people when so ill are scared to bathe on their own, so you may offer to sit nearby to help her, maybe wash her back or help her wash her hair. Often people with MH problems become so isolated that they do not experience the comfort of touch.

One path of persuasion is to acknowledge gently that she needs to wash as when you are so close to her she is starting to smell, point out that she will feel so much better afterwards.

To add - You can’t help someone that doesn’t want to help themselves.

To add - You can’t help someone that doesn’t want to help themselves.

This.

my DH works in mental health and often tells me that the lack of personal care is one of the standard systems of depression or other mental illness. It is always a huge improvement when patients start to take care of themselves - wash, shave etc. Does your mum have a support worker who can help with all that?

Social care wont necessarily help. A friends Mother has dementia. She stopped washing herself and her clothes and the Carers and Social Worker just say that it's her decision and they can't make her wash.

Normally the most you will get is a CPN, or if in crisis, crisis team visits. You can get PIP to employ carers, but people have to take part in the not very nice assessment process, and not everyone will. Most people with severe mental health problems rely on their families.

OP this is not a one-off crisis, it is a long-term ongoing situation. I would not do more than you are doing. I would, and have said to my relative, that they need to have a shower and have kindly sent them to have a shower. But she might not listen to you.
If she does not only thing you can do is refuse to meet her inside, say you will only meet her in a park because she smells and refuses to shower. I know it sounds very harsh, but I found there is no point beating about the bush with this. It achieves nothing.

And I care off and on for a relative with bipolar. People always seem to think there is lots of support out there, and there really isn't.

OP

I have depression and anxiety and there’s no way I could cope with this.
I’d say go NC. You can’t save her but you can save yourself and your child.