Cannot progress without a degree... 😡

[Hmmmmminteresting]

I'm early 30s. I chose not to go to uni and to instead do 2 years at a business college (qualifications do not equal a degree, they were less). I then was promoted to an office manager at the age of 22 to 25, managing 17 people. Since moved on to a job I love and have been there 7 years. In this company you cannot progress without a degree. They are 100% adamant, 2:1 or more is minimum. They dont take any of your history into account. So many people getting promoted above me with no managerial experience but have a degree in random subjects not relevant. A few have since left as they just weren't suitable for that role.
I know I could do it and I have been told by so many others that it's frustrating I'm not qualified enough as I would be first choice.
AIBU to think this is a pretty old fashioned way of thinking?
I dont want to leave the company, I just wish they would change their rules.

Open uni would be difficult for me -of course its something I've investigated. However work are unable to support me because everyone else would expect the same and with a young ds I genuinely dont know how I would find the time.

well. Where there's a will there's a way. When I started at the OU i worked in a job with sometimes stupidly long hours and a 3 hour daily commute (I switched to a bit of a bugger of a public transport route because it gave me 2 hours a day on a train where i could usually - but not always -get a seat and do uni work then). I used my lunchbreak to study most days (i sacrificed a few in the name of remaining part of my team) and i studied in the evening once family stuff was done.

I started just before the fees were jacked up so i didn't have the opportunity to take a year off it, and i won't lie it was stressful. But with my family's support and a boss who was usually (but not always) pretty good about the odd spontaneous day off for essay writing. One thing i did, right from the beginning, was outsource the cleaning and other housework things i did (not too much because my DH is fabulously good at sharing the load anyway). In the end one of my DC took over some of the cleaning for payment. Gardening was outsourced for payment.

Just make sure you don't pick a course with a residency requirement. I did 60 credits a year which is officially classed as part time - which translated for my degree as 1 module a year from October to June. July - September i read all the books and did all the things i didn't otherwise get to do (although tbh, i didn't give up theatre, concerts, football and so on)

This thread reminded me of when I first started work in a Lloyd's Broker late 70s. The second in command had started there as teaboy at 15 and worked his way to the top. The company always took on a 16 year old school leaver every year doing the post and telexes to train up, teaboys were redundant by the time I got there.

just do the degree.

If you work for a reasonably sized organisation they may have had to pay into the apprenticeship levy. This means that they can use it to fund apprenticeships, including degree apprenticeships. Some universities offer accelerated degree apprenticeships in business and management where you can complete a degree in around 18 months if you have the right background in terms of previous qualifications and experience. The workload is fierce, but you could end up with a degree in a year and a half. I can see where you company is coming from though. Almost 50% of people your age have a degree. To them it’s evidence that someone has the skills they needs AND the capacity to learn additional skills. There’s also the matter of credibility if its a front facing role. Companies like to be able to demonstrate to clients that their staff is well educated.

see if your company will pay for you to do a degree?

* I'd like to see companies who insist on degrees being legally required to finance staff to get one.*

Oh don’t be so daft. That would mean any job spec requirement would have to be paid for by the employer, why just degree requirement.

You say you have had to train three managers OP.

On systems presumably? Not on management, performance reviews etc

Another vote for a part time MBA

Lots of big companies will sponsor you or at least pay the fees.

With a few years experience under your belt it could give you some interesting options. I know mine really changed my thinking in ways that I could not have predicted.

It would move you from a position of weakness to one of strength, which is usually a good thing. All the best.

I did my diploma by night while I was pg, and the Masters was the following academic year, when DD was 9 months old. It was hard, but I just had to be ruthlessly organised. Set out specific time in the library to get all my documents and readings copied to do at home (or in the library if I had spare time). Get DD to bed and work for a couple of hours some evenings, and some mornings I was up an hour early to study. I would read articles on the train going in. Occasionally blitz the house, and then just do my best to maintain it for the next month but not worry about most of it once the kitchen was kept clean. Batch cook for freezer once a month. Bring reading materials to softplay - I would have to go over them again later, but reading them that once, even if chaotic and distracted, would make a big difference to absorbing them.

It is hard, but it is doable even with DCs in the house.

The thing is, your company just are not seeing this the same way, and tbh I agree with them.

They are thinking longer term and they simply do not see you as more experienced and therefore a better bet or more able. They simply see you as further along the 'pathway' at the moment because you have missed out a step, and that is not the same as being ahead/better. In a year or two, those managers you've had to train will have ticked the boxes you already have and will be more experienced at the roles PLUS having the breadth of transferable skills, critical thinking, proof of all-round ability that they consider a degree to confer. You'll still be missing that step. They are right.

If you want to progress in the company you need to do a degree. The fact that you can't at the moment appreciate or even see why they think this way probably means you really do need to do the degree! Progessing in a career is not the same as progressing in one job role.

You're not being unreasonable. The company are being daft. I finished an OU degree in 2017 but unfortunately many companies aren't interested in degrees now without a professional post graduate qualification to back it up. It's a very old fashioned attitude. Many graduates (esp arts ones) end up in low paid jobs these days. Vocational and science/engineering degrees are better.

I've worked in Unis and believe me, these days a degree isn't even a guarantee they are fully literate, let alone practically capable (spell check has a lot to answer for). A uni degree used to be valuable with less than one in ten having them. Labour got that up to 50% because they thought that would make them more likely to vote Labourbit that meant a lot of not very bright or able people graduated and many degrees were seriously undervalued and we had a shortage of trained staff for non-degree careers. Those numbers have dropped to about 40%, but degrees are still not a guarantee of brightness or ability.

The gold standard now is treating solid previous experience as degree level and most public sector non-specialist jobs do that as do many private as it was recognised it was bad for business to keep bright people down because of a certificate and that is was frequently age discrimination too (not many older people went to Uni. Your best bet is to get evidence other prestigious companies and orgs have dropped this, take it to your boss and HR and tell them you're seriously thinking of moving on if not progressed. There are plenty of orgs which will progress you.

And many of the people on here saying 'oh that's fine, degrees are special' are probably not very up on the sector, because believe me, many are not.

As a perpetual student of the OU, now two years into my master's, I think you could manage it OP. If you're doing it part time over 6 years, it is not hard going, the only time I found it a bit tough going is when I studied for exams but they are infrequent (level two and three modules only usually, you may have one or two exams max per year). You would probably enjoy it, and who knows it could take you on another path altogether.

Well the route I took was part time leading to an MBA but the first year you got a post grad cert in management, second post grad diploma, third plus dissertation, the mba.
I worked full time and had 2 dc (4 and 6 when I started).

I'm about to start a grad cert and if it goes well I'll look at doing a master's.

I have an advanced diploma and cert 3, but need this next level to progress too.

I do agree with your company's stance though, sorry.

Look into topping up the qualification you have to gain a degree in a business related subject inline with your previous qualification. That qualification may count as a credit towards a degree meaning you only have to do part of a degree which you could do part time. In the meantime put the feelers out with recruitment agencies that you would be interested in a move if the right opportunity came along and explain the fact that you cant progress further where you are because you don’t have a degree. You may get your degree before a right opportunity comes along but on the other hand you may find a better job elsewhere. It probably will do you good to study to degree level to give you more opportunities in the job market as well as with your current employer but you don’t need to just wait to get a degree and hope your employer will then promote you. I would just make yourself as marketable as possible to everyone! Also I think your current employer is being narrow minded but make it their loss if you find a better opportunity elsewhere.

Get them to pay for your degree. And then leave the company.

I would look for a new role. Don't stagnate in a place that has told you it plans to keep you where you are and has institutionally blocked you from success. Take seriously what they are telling you. If you can honestly say you are good and would add real value, then it speaks to larger problems in the organisation. Credentialism (not professional requirements like medical degrees, but "any-degreeism") can be a sign of weakness and you don't want to end up ten years older, still at the same career stage, and out of a job because the place has folded.

Of course this varies sector to sector - in tech no serious business would block a 10x active contributor for not having a degree, even if their graduate and intern programmes require them. In corporate law, they probably all would.

The OU is the best thing I've ever done and I'm starting my second degree with them part time around work and childcare. It's perfectly feasible to do it - that's why the OU exist! If it was impossible to fit study around work and kids, they wouldn't have any students. Most of the people on my module have full time jobs and children. Some like me are single parents. It can be done! The recommend 16 hrs a week of study but unless it's an assignment due week or exam no way do you need to set aside that much time. Go for it!

I think it depends on what field you are working in also. Many sectors, especially public and healthcare are very much 'evidence based practice', which you sort of have to be academically literate, what research papers are currently informing policy and practice, and to know the language of your field. Obviously I don't think a degree is a measure of intelligence, but it does train you through methods of researching, learning and academic writing that work experience is likely not going to give you. A degree plus your experience OP and you may blow everyone else out of the water.

Also to add, I do have 3 A-Levels (German, english literature and physchology).
I just made the decision at the time that I would be going to uni for the wrong reasons as there were no courses that really interested me. So instead I moved away to study at a business college for 2 years m and then in year 2 got a job working in that area as an office junior
At 20 I finished and moved area and jobs, and at 22 was put in charge of the office. that included all of the firing and hiring, disciplinaries etc. Planning of day to day workloads and overseeing the finance, sales and warehouse offices. It was a lot of responsibility and I found it tough due to my age but I loved it.
The role I moved to which I'm still in now, is much more specialised. The manager role is the same as what I do already, just the focus is more of taking a step back to have a broader picture to focus more on numbers. Hence the reason I train them.

To all the people saying get a degree it's not as easy as that. You've got to be able to afford to start with.

Mature students can access student loans, including maintenance, if you've never done a degree. Its worth looking into, as I did, as I'm applying to start a degree next year, when I'll be 53.

Op, I mean this gently but are you sure that's the reason they are not progressing uou and it's not just an easy out reason to give you?

In my experience, degrees usually count on recruitment, or for knowledge required to do the job. The latter seems not to be the case here if they are promoting people with unrelated degrees.

Whatever the reason, if they are not willing to progress uou, and you are wishing to move forward, then start looking for new opportunities.

@bluntness I did put this a little further upthread:

For those saying this is probably just a way of not promoting me - that actually not the case at all. It's a huge very international company and none of the rules are made here. We just adhere to them. The same applies to all manager roles across the business, whether office based or based out of office so they will not be making an exception for me.

A degree may confer critical thinking and knowledge based requirements. IME this is not guaranteed (10 years of recruiting people, including graduates).

I've had wonderful graduates who want to come in and learn and who understand that everyone has a role to play regardless of their educational achievements. I've had so-so graduates who think that their degree means that they are better than those who didn't go to University. I've had awful graduates who simply refuse to learn from the ground up (one memorable example was a young man refusing to take his turn on the tea and coffee round because he had a degree. Looked rather silly when the Group CEO came into the meeting and offered to make everyone a drink).

There are certain jobs where a degree is going to be a non-negotiable requirement (medicine and veterinary studies for example). But there are plenty of fields where practical experience and apprenticeships are - or should be - just as valid a route 'up' as a degree. Firms that don't acknowledge this are being short sighted. It's all very well valuing the skills that a degree can confer, but if you overlook practical experience then you are going to have a steady and continual stream of talented people, with huge amounts of institutional knowledge, trot out the door to an employer who will reward their experience.

How could you possibly have "trained" 3 managers in 2020 op?! It's not even the end of January yet! Do you mean office inductions or e.g. bespoke trai6on company specific expenses systems or something?

You cannot, cannot claim to have trained 3 managers in less than 4 weeks from a management pov, that's ridiculous.

You are also completely ignoring my point about office administrator Vs actual management, which only makes my suspicion that you don't really understand manager-level corporate roles or responsibilities well.

As an additional thought... Back in the early 2000s I worked in a normal office where everyone had, or was expected to be studying for, degrees or degree level certs... E.g. Various accountant routes, not always at uni. You could not apply for the senior jobs without it. That's not a new or unusual approach in my experience. And can you imagine studying part time alongside work for years, juggling commitments, saying no to birthday meals out, putting kids in extra childcare, getting that work recognition..... Only for someone like you to say "well I don't like the rule, I don't want to study but I want the promotion"? And how frustrating and resentful you'd be with your colleague..?

Open uni would be difficult for me -of course its something I've investigated. However work are unable to support me because everyone else would expect the same and with a young ds I genuinely dont know how I would find the time. Me and dh moved areas and we have zero family help whatsoever. I work 40 hours a week

It's difficult for everyone.

I did OU and had to spread it over 7 years, rather than the more common 6, because at the same time I was working 60 hour weeks of night shifts ever other week (regular hours the alternate week) and then also had DD part way through.

I missed pretty much every weekend and bank hol party/meet-up with friends for years due to studying, and we struggled like hell when DD was born to find the time for me to continue studying, but it had to be done. Had to use babysitters just to get time to study some weeks as DH was working abroad regularly, too.

You seem to want your cake and eat it, OP, if I'm honest.

Either crack on or accept your lot.