Cannot progress without a degree... 😡

[Hmmmmminteresting]

I'm early 30s. I chose not to go to uni and to instead do 2 years at a business college (qualifications do not equal a degree, they were less). I then was promoted to an office manager at the age of 22 to 25, managing 17 people. Since moved on to a job I love and have been there 7 years. In this company you cannot progress without a degree. They are 100% adamant, 2:1 or more is minimum. They dont take any of your history into account. So many people getting promoted above me with no managerial experience but have a degree in random subjects not relevant. A few have since left as they just weren't suitable for that role.
I know I could do it and I have been told by so many others that it's frustrating I'm not qualified enough as I would be first choice.
AIBU to think this is a pretty old fashioned way of thinking?
I dont want to leave the company, I just wish they would change their rules.

AIBU to think this is a pretty old fashioned way of thinking?

Not an old fashioned way of thinking at all. In the past most people didn't have degrees and not having one wouldn't have mattered when trying to progress.

It's a modern thing. Thanks to Blair, more and more people go to Uni and get degrees. That means it's become "the norm" for most managerial/senior positions, whether needed or not.

I'm a qualified chartered accountant but don't have a degree. The same has happened to me. Even bog standard accountant jobs in big firms, (not involving management etc) have stipulated Uni Degree as a basic requirement. Even though my accountancy qualification is equivalent to a masters degree, I've been rejected because it wasn't a degree - apparently "equivalent" doesn't count either.

I haven’t got a degree but I’m in an exec role earning six figures. I had to move around, I looked a roles advertising requirement of a degree or degree or equivalent experience, you have the latter.

You can either stay where you are and suck it up, get a degree (OU?) which will take a couple of years and push for promotion (not guaranteed) or look elsewhere.

For the PP that said you need a degree to do accountancy, that is not true and in fact a lot of firms are cutting down on their graduate recruitment. It is possible to get a professional qualification without a degree and you can be qualified before those on the graduate scheme and have no student loans.

It is indeed possible, but in my case, my Chartered accountancy qualification wasn't good enough for numerous jobs in larger practices as they had a stipulation that only graduates could apply for senior/managerial jobs if applying from outside the firm. Saw it time and time again. They basically wanted an accountancy qualification AND a degree. Hence I was "trapped" in smaller/private firms and could never break into regional or national firms.

Negotiate with your company to get a degree then, they may contribute to fees, they may not, they may give you some time off. Basically sell it them that you can do the job and it would be the best solution for you and them for you to get a degree.

If you do a business/management degree your previous work experience and your previous study will count.

You could probably miss the first year entirely.

Lots of expollys and the OU start courses in February.

If you get APEL for the first year you could easily study 30 credits a year, the OU advise that for 30 credits you need 10 hours a week to study, but you will be studying things you already know.

In 4 years you could have that degree and the promotion.

Even though my accountancy qualification is equivalent to a masters degree, I've been rejected because it wasn't a degree - apparently "equivalent" doesn't count either

I've heard about this happening in the library and information profession too - people are chartered librarians but because they didn't do a library degree, they don't get promoted.

Do the work to get a degree and stop bad-mouthing those who have done that work.

You can do a degree via the Open University. You never know, you might learn something!

It does seem silly, but if that's their rules and you were aware of them when you joined, have you spoken to them about the prospect of distance learning through work?

YANBU to be annoyed about this policy. It’s old fashioned and short sighted. YABU to not take action - either find a more forward thinking company that promotes on merit and ability not irrelevant qualifications or get a degree, it’s never too late. I left school at 16 with very few qualifications but when I was 50 I went to uni for the first time and now have an MSc (although I did for personal satisfaction and development rather than career progression).

@cologne4711 it's not possible to get chartered without an accredited degree or postgrad and portfolio? You can work in a role labelled as 'librarian' but CILIP chartered is different.

Nope, again my highly intellectual navel gazing public sector place of work is scrupulous about "or equivalent ". I have been an interviewer myself and know plenty who are. We are required not to obsess about whether or not someone has a degree before giving them an interview, if what we are satisfied is "degree equivalent " experience is there - and it's peer checked as a decision. Obviously if the role includes managing people, a degree isn't necessarily going to show you can do that.

Morning all, thanks for the replies I've just read them all.
For those saying this is probably just a way of not promoting me - that actually not the case at all. It's a huge very international company and none of the rules are made here. We just adhere to them. The same applies to all manager roles across the business, whether office based or based out of office so they will not be making an exception for me.
I think it's got to me recently as 3 new managers started so far in 2020 and I have had to train them!
Open uni would be difficult for me -of course its something I've investigated. However work are unable to support me because everyone else would expect the same and with a young ds I genuinely dont know how I would find the time. Me and dh moved areas and we have zero family help whatsoever. I work 40 hours a week and dh works closer to 60.
Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond to me. It's so frustrating and I'm glad to hear that the majority dont think I'm being unreasonable.

@dolorabelle at what point have I bad mouthed people with a degree sorry?!

It's a way of preventing poorer people from progressing. If you couldn't afford a degree and can't afford one now, you hit a glass ceiling.

I'd like to see companies who insist on degrees being legally required to finance staff to get one.

Very frustrating for you, particularly as so many of today’s degrees are pretty worthless. Back in the 50s and 60s, only approximately 6% of a year group went to university. You had to be clever to get a place. Obviously now nearly 50% of youngsters are accepted on degree course, the overall level of intelligence and level of work involved is much lower. There are of course exceptions.

Yes, I know more than that 6% could have coped with university education, but there is no way many of today’s students would have a hope. The demand of OP’s firm that everyone should have a degree is absurd.

Hmmmmminteresting if they won't promote you - yet are acknowledging your skills because you are being asked to train these managers! - and they won't help fund you through a degree, then leave.

I know you feel like you don't want to, but there are other firms out there that will value your skills and won't see the degree as a be-all and end-all. There are also firms that will help support your professional progression; a colleague of mine is being funded through an MBA by our firm. As PP have said, once you have relevant experience it's possible to go straight to a Masters without having done an undergraduate degree.

Look into apprenticeships.
My dd got into office management this way. She's since moved jobs and the company have the same degree required policy. They are paying for this.

You don't need a load of time with the OU. Depending on how busy I was I would study during my lunch break, and if I was travelling somewhere. Then at the weekend, I would disappear for a few hours to study.

You are not being unreasonable to think this is a stupid and discriminatory policy. However, I actually think it is a very modern policy. It is not so long ago that people could reach the top in all sorts of professions, including law, without a degree. We then swing towards degrees in every subject under the sun and there are small signs of efforts to swing back, but very few. With university being so expensive, I think that it is very important that progress is not dependent on a piece of paper showing you spent a lot of money on something of no relevance to your work.

On a practical level, what is right or wrong will not get you that promotion. I suggest you look at the Open University website and perhaps even speak to someone there. You may find that your qualifications and experience are enough for you to do a one year masters degree over a two year period rather than a 3 year degree over a 6 year period. It would be cheaper, quicker and a higher level of qualification. An older relative did this, but her circumstances were different. She had an old fashioned nursing qualification (before nursing degrees) and was a very senior nurse. She did a masters in a particular area of nursing that interested her (and then academic research after that).

I understand your frustration ,but on the plus side you have a steady job /income and a partner /DS .My friend did her degree in her 40s with 2 daughters/DH it was hard work but she got through it and now has a good income .I think you have to be realistic ,a good work life balance against a few years of hard slog to get where you want to be .My DF found it hard going, but would have been stuck doing more hours in a less senior role if she hadnt .It doesnt matter whether anyone thinks its "fair" or not .This is a large Multi National Co who presumably could and do recruit from all over the world ? Say an American Graduate had worked long and hard for their degree would be working for someone less qualified.Also surely promotion would be on the cards as well in the future where degree is more necessary? If you truly want something you will have to go all out for it .If not all OK but you cant have cake and eat it as well !

This was a fairly common issue where we last lived were few locals wnet to university in late teens early 20s.

Some did OU, some took few years out from company to go to a brick and mortar university and some, some went p/t and evening to local college which did degrees.

Many had young families so were short on time and money - sometimes the employer would give some training money or hold a job open - but most did it on their own.

It was extremely frustrating to them but all I knew managed or were well on way to getting a degree.

sorry haven't RTFT but I'm surprised at so many "those are the rules and they are never to be broken" replies because that doesn't usually appear to be the MN way.

FWIW: i did a degree in 6 years on the OU (just for fun actually, but it's to show it can be done) but that is expensive. But it would be worth checking at the OU and other FE places if the qualifications you have can be counted, sometimes you can get credit for them.

I'd look to move to another company where experience counts. It has never ceased to amaze me how many graduates i had to train up who then automatically got a pay rise and promotion but constantly asked me for help. I only gave it to the non-arrogant ones.

Have you asked your company if they will contribute to the cost of your degree if you decide to take one?

Frankly i think that rigid thinking like that in companies is lazy and doesn't take into account the vast wealth of potential that doesn't have a degree (late bloomers etc). They're really not worth your loyalty.

Sounds as if you work in a sizeable organisation. Have you asked HR if they will sponsor/part sponsor you on an OU degree as part of professional development?

Depending on the role yanbu, many people have a degree that is completely irrelevant to their job but because they've ticked a box in the application process they can apply/ be offered jobs that people without degrees can't.
I don't have a degree , I had a good job that didn't require a degree at the time I was doing it ( with good appraisals, I perfectly capable of doing it) , when I took a career break to look after DC I could not get back at same level without a degree. In the intervening period degrees had become more common and so were then considered a prerequisite for the role. So I get your annoyance , maybe you should consider studying for an ou degree.

There are so many ways to earn a degree outside of work. And if you are doing one to benefit the company itself, you could talk to HR or whoever is in charge of training etc to see if they would at least part fund it and allow study days and time off for exams etc.

But there are lots of distance learning and evening courses leading to degrees. I did a Diploma by nights that I thought I would follow on with the degree level programme (I got a chance to do a Masters programme by day for 1 year instead in that area, as I already had a degree in a different area).

And if work can see you are working on the degree programme, they may short circuit the process in your instance because of your existing experience and previous studies - on condition that you do finish the degree in a specific length of time.

Have you looked at other opportunities OP?

Are you hell bent on staying with your company?

It is often easier to progress through a career by switching jobs than waiting to progress through an existing compan structure.

A new employer has to find ways of enticing good new employees- so have to make a new position a better situation than an employee already has.
Switching companies will allow you to jump several steps in a career ladder rather than having to stick at the the progression you are "allwoed" to make within your own company.

In practice a move will often mean a salary jump, a better position, more opportunity.

I wouldn't waste another second with your present company.
Think 10 years ahead- you may be stuck in the same position.

Just read work won't support you with OU degree because same for everyone. No they need a policy that sets out a fair criteria eg says we will support people with x years service with a record of excellence.

For those mentioning national accountancy firms
ukcareers.ey.com/students/programmes/apprenticeships