Cannot progress without a degree... 😡

[Hmmmmminteresting]

I'm early 30s. I chose not to go to uni and to instead do 2 years at a business college (qualifications do not equal a degree, they were less). I then was promoted to an office manager at the age of 22 to 25, managing 17 people. Since moved on to a job I love and have been there 7 years. In this company you cannot progress without a degree. They are 100% adamant, 2:1 or more is minimum. They dont take any of your history into account. So many people getting promoted above me with no managerial experience but have a degree in random subjects not relevant. A few have since left as they just weren't suitable for that role.
I know I could do it and I have been told by so many others that it's frustrating I'm not qualified enough as I would be first choice.
AIBU to think this is a pretty old fashioned way of thinking?
I dont want to leave the company, I just wish they would change their rules.

@justinesbentobox you clearly have no knowledge of the business I work in, what I do and what they do. So rather than being rude why not just try and understand what I'm saying instead?
I fully understand Corp office manager roles thanks, I also fully understand an administrator. There are different tiers where I work and the kind of role I think YOU are thinking off would be another level up from the one I am talking about.

You're full of excuses as to why there should be an exception just for you. This idea that you have to have 'family' help is the thing that's outdated yet so prevalent. Loads of people work FT, have kids and do degrees without 'family' help. Yes, it's hard, but it's the way it is. Very common in N. America where fees have to paid upfront. My father got his degree age 35, two kids, working FT, no 'family' help they all lived hundreds of miles away. He and my mum, who was also working, had to be super organised and recognise things had to be different for a while. But he was not able to progress anymore in his career without it. They worked as a team.

This is their policy. They are not discriminating, it's across the board.

It is old fashioned, poor practice, lazy recruiting and places them at risk of a claim of indirect age discrimination.

If I have a client who wants to bung ‘degree’ as an essential criteria in recruitment, I ask them what the degree has to be in. There are of course some professions where specific knowledge only gained that way is genuinely essential, which is fine.

If they are unable to specify what degree they require candidates to have (ie a meeja studies degree from a poorly-regarded establishment would be fine) then I ask them what qualities, skill and attributes they are looking for that they think any person who happens to spent three years doing that will have that they feel someone who hasn’t been to university can’t possibly have.

Once they’ve identified what attributes they are actually looking for (if any at all), those are what we put down as the essential criteria. And the types of attributes they are (some listed in previous posts here) can usually be demonstrated in other ways.

I've not RTFT so someone may have suggested this already... you may be able to top up your current qualifications either with another year in a Brick University (doing 3rd year effectively) or doing the same thing part time with the Open University... both options would tell you before enrolment if your current qualifications are comparable to 1st and 2nd year of a degree and may give you all of the credit or part of it so you don't need to do a full 360 credits but may only need to do 120 at level 3...

It sounds pretty logical and YABU because people get some useful skills along with the degree. Also, I wonder how do you know that people who got promoted have their degrees in random and irrelevant subjects, did you ask all of them personally?
You better look for some other job where your experience will be valued. But I agree with PPs saying that there are many jobs you can't do without a degree so this it is not an old fashioned opinion or way of thinking.

OU / any study is hard for everyone, to an extent but also very possible for most people. It's only 15 hours a week. (Yes, it might take longer when you have an assignment to write but most weeks, 12-15 hours is enough). So, 3 or 4 weekday evenings after the DCs are in bed, plus half a day at the weekend, for example. Lots of arts and social science courses don't have residentials, that's more for practical science work.

The hard thing is doing it every week, week after week, not just in those weeks when things are going well. But there is enough flexibility to allow for life's blips, so you can miss one week if a DC's ill and catch up, request extensions for an occasional assignement etc - so long as you do then put in the extra time to catch up before the end of the year.

I worked in a multinational organisation with this policy. They would however, pay for you to undertake a degree - I did my MBA while there and a colleague did a primary degree. I had my primary degree before I started there.

I worked with another colleague who specialised in IT (as in, he knew the socialist programme the company used for ordering etc, inside out). He could never progress to manager in his area because he did not have a degree. Everyone suggested to him that he should just do a degree at night - his answer was that he didn't need to study as he knew it all and he would not learn anything useful at university. No matter what we said he could not understand that the company policy would not change for him and he had 3 options, accept it and grow increasingly bitter or get his degree or change job. He chose option 1.

So I think you should look into doing a degree as it will help you in this company and in any other you want to move to in the future. And find out from HR if there are any ways to get funding through the company - sometimes they don't publicise them, but they usually offer some kind of funding.

Now you're being quite bolshy. They won't make an exception for you. They don't have to. It doesn't matter how you view it, they are the ones holding all the cards. If it threw a spanner in your life plan it is not their fault or their problem. They have made things clear. Few jobs are not able to be replaced, particularly office management roles.

so sorry, that is specialist not socialist!!

@cologne4711 it's not possible to get chartered without an accredited degree or postgrad and portfolio? You can work in a role labelled as 'librarian' but CILIP chartered is different

It is possible to get chartered without an accredited degree/post-grad. I don't have a library science degree but I could charter via the portfolio - I have the certification and could progress if I could be bothered. But I've seen people saying it's not worth it for them because their employers don't recognise chartership without a library BA/MA.

@DowntownAbby want my cake and eat it? I really dont. I'll be almost 40 by the time I finished OU.
I'd have missed out on so much with my ds like you said, along with other things. I'd also be in a lot of debt.
And by this point theres no guarantee that my company wont have changed their policy on degrees or that they wouldnt just see me as too old for the job!
I think its harsh to say I want my cake and eat it.
I've worked damn hard with no support from anyone. I barely see my wage as its swallowed up in nursery fees. Yet I'm the only one on my level asked to train the new managers coming in to help out the managers that are already there, and I get nothing for it in return. My question was AIBU to think this is unfair that in order for me to get paid for the job that I'm practically doing already and teaching others to do, I need a degree.

Have you considered a Graduate Apprenticeship at a local university? They're not an easy option but they will give you exemptions from parts of the course based on your experience and training, and some of your work activities will contribute towards your degree.

It's free to the employer and employee, though the employer may need to give you time to attend, and it doesn't matter whether your organisation pays the levy or not, only some employers pay the levy but any employer can use it.

Expecting people to study and qualify while they work is very modern thinking!

If you have professional development reviews it's something to ask for. Good luck!

OP, for what its worth, I completely agree with you that it is silly to insist on a degree when it doesn't even need to be a relevant subject. However I disagree that you cannot achieve a degree. I didn't even do A Levels and went into a public sector admin job in my early 20's. I was internally promoted (internal boards only asked for experience, they also advertised externally and qualifications were required for those). I progressed to middle management within about 5 years but was very aware that everyone around me, including subordinates ALL had degrees. I was very aware I was stuck there in that organisation with no option to move due to lack of qualifications. If truth be told, I felt very inferior and like I didn't deserve the role I was in and was just lucky that I seem to interview well.

I was miserable so decided I needed to take the bull by the horns and get a degree. I decided I may aswell do it in an area I was actually interested in so chose a vocational degree that would lead to a drastic career change. I had to complete an access course and then a degree, whilst working and juggling the kids. It was bloody tough but so so worth it!!! I am now working in my new career, progressing well, feel so much more confident and happy and no longer suffer imposter syndrome! I am still studying part time, a Masters now.

Maybe this is your pivotal moment to make change? Believe me, if I can do it, anyone can!

Then find another job! Newsflash: the world is unfair.

I would also think that they are looking at you and thinking - if she's so dedicated, able and keen to progress, why isn't she eager to do her degree?

OP, I think your present employers have a very unsatisfactory promotion policy and my first thought is that you should find another job with a company that will value your experience. However it is likely that your present qualifications would get you some credits towards an OU degree and it is very doable for most people. My DH has always worked full time in a physically and mentally challenging environment, often having to work weekends if we go back some years. He was doing an OU degree in literature when I met him, just for fun, but once he had got that he needed a specific STEM subject degree to progress, so he got on with it and did that, and followed it with a masters degree in the same subject. He just got on with it in odd bits of time here and there. It took a bit longer than he would have liked but he was 100% committed and as a result he has a professional qualification that gave him the opportunity to never be out of a well paid job. I'm just wondering if your existing qualifications and experience might take you straight to an MBA course? worth a look.

It's very old fashioned. Most places say degree or equivalent experience now don't they? When it isn't a role actually requiring a particular qualification for regulatory reasons anyway.

That being said, you are stuck with it.

Get qualified op, I do think it's madness promiting those with degree and lesser experience when they could promote you and you could work towards ons at the same time.
Degrees are fine as are equivalents, but they're worthless if you don't have the skill or experience to match that level of education. Experience and skill are great but in this day and age there comes a time where you probably need to consolidate this be working towards a relevant professional degree evel qualification or an actual degree.

Elara2

Off topic

Hey I'm doing OU maths for fun, MST124 and M140 at the moment.

OP

You can do a minimum amount of studying, I think I said (sorry if I didn't) the OU recommend 10 hours a week for a 30 credit module.

But I've been to different unis and some modules are 10,15,20 credits.

The OU has some free study you could have a look at.

I do understand how you can feel it is unfair. I worked for the NHS, when I started you needed to do a BTEC National to be qualified, I went on to the HNC because I was interested but now it is degree entry.

I had to give up work due to disability so I knew realistically I could not get another job without one.

Don't worry about tresidentials, not all courses have them, and even those that do you can negotiate your way out of. Lots of prisoners take OU qualifications and they obviously can't attend residentials.

I'v e just had a look, there is a business management with German, with your A Level you could skip the basic German, or sit the assessments and ace them.

Alternatively have a look at the 'open' degree, you can take units from any subject. Assuming you enjoyed your A Levels you would probably enjoy the freedom of an open degree.

Oh, and if a large company refuses to let you do a GA you could possibly kick up a bit of a stink with HR. You can also talk to the GA office at the university where you want to study, they may support you.

I also hate this rule, it makes no sense.
I could have a drama degree but how does that qualify me to manage a team. It should always be a relevant degree or relevant experience!
I think it's time to look for a new company where experience is seen as a positive not a negative.
You shouldn't be forced back in to education and debt if it's not something you actually want to do.

Well, so what if it is unfair? What are you going to do about that?

You could ask what the qualities and skills are that the company values in a degree and see if you can demonstrate that you have those. But, you say it's a big, top-down, box ticking sort of place, so that's probably not going to work.

I would think about a degree like this: unless it's a vocational degree, the employment-related skills that you'll gain are not subject-specific, they are analytical and communication skills. You still gain a whole lot of subject knowledge though and that, for it's own sake, is quite enjoyable. So, if there's a relevant vocational course, do that. If there really isn't, for this or your future jobs, pick a subject that interests you and enjoy it!

PatellarTendonitis actually, you are the one who seems to be living in the past. Many top firms now are NOT requiring degrees. This includes top accountancy firms who now are recruiting from a wider pool of people. The fact is that 'a degree' as a requirement is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. A degree in classics or medieval literature is not going to benefit a role or a company more than the equal number of years spent gaining experience. A blanket requirement of 'a degree' is so 20th century.

Do a masters, it will only take two years to complete part time. If you have all that experience you'll find one to take you without a degree. It will be a significantly faster and cheaper route to get where you want to be.

The rules seem fair to me. What would be the point of getting a degree if someone without one could just come along and get the job anyway? I say this as someone who was in your exact position and it really frustrated me (so I do empathise) but I recognized it was my decision to drop out of uni and as such it was my responsibility to deal with the negative consequences of that i.e limited job progression.

I went part time at work and did a masters full time for one year and returned after graduation to a promotion and significant pay rise. Had one DD at the time. It was very hard work and included LOTS of sleepless nights (I studied while she slept) but it totally paid off. Get your skates on OP or accept your choices.

Also it was an incredible sense of achievement- worth it for that alone!