To think this class-obsessed country uses DC's names to change theirs?

[GinDaddy]

I live in the South of England, I'm heading towards middle age, so this gives you some context before my OP, which is..

AIBU to think people are giving their DCs "posh" or "aspirational" names as status signifiers? (Which ironically immediately marks them out to me as such?)

I realise there's always been fashionable and unfashionable names since time immemorial. But what I'm talking about is the slew of names which I would previously only expect to hear on Made In Chelsea or Guy Pelly's guest list at Boujis.

Arabella. Annabelle. Isabelle. Amelia. Jasper. Oscar. Oliver (to be inevitably commuted immediately to Ollie in faux-braying tones). Hugo. Theo. Leo. Harry (not even bothering to use the proper Harold, just going straight to the diminutive because well, it sounds right).

It's just a bit odd really. People can and will call their child what they like, but why are so many folk (and it's always the same folk, the ones who are project managers, who love myWaitrose and head tilting, whose teeth chatter when grandparents offer DC a Kinder Surprise) enamoured with these names?

Can someone actually explain this to me? No one has ownership of names, but I cannot believe that some people aren't using this as some sort of social signifier. 15 years ago not everyone was called Ollie or Theo. I didn't know a load of Arabellas or Amelias, I knew a few but that was commensurate with the environment.

AIBU to think the popularity of these names comes from their associate social status?

Why is that @Rhodadendra?

"Just because youre class obsessed doesnt mean the majority gives a toss"

this.

@getupnow
Well I guess it depends on what type of foreign name it is.

England is very judgey
But so are most countries - just in different ways. At least ours is blindingly obvious

@GinDaddy I just don’t feel that any of the names you highlighted are particularly aspirational, just run of the mill really.

My 13yo girl has a unisex name. I read recently that there has been a rise in these - in another 10 years I daresay people like the OP will be posting that I chose it to make a statement about gender. Sometimes, you just choose it, because you like it.

If you go for a walk around a graveyard youll see that different periods in time had popular names.
Nothing has changed.
Why are you so bitter over people choosing names they consider nice? Why are you so obsessed with bringing Class into that?

I think it depends a lot on how you define “class”. It’s an evolving thing, changes down the generations.

I agree OP.
My dhs's cousin admitted she named her children Polly and Rupert do they would be welcome in the 'right' sets.
She is sending them to Private school too, even though the state schools in her area are good.
She openly admits that she wants to mix with s certain set and that set only!

People tend to use names they have heard being used, in past times these name sources would be people in the local community and royalty, then came tv so you started getting names from further afield which had been used in tv programmes and names of actors and actresses. Now we have the internet and people are realising there are no longer the old class barriers so are using names our parents and grandparents would have thought were above them.

Obviously this is a sweeping generalisation.

Well aren’t you out to be antagonistic! Ha. Get a new hobby.

Also, all of those names are just nice, normal traditional names. Ollie? Get a grip.

You’re obviously not hugely au fait with actual ‘posh’ names such as Lysander, Cosmo, Ptolemy and the like. And have a chip on your shoulder that you’re not as middle class as you wish you were. 😆

My parents are immigrants & I don't have an English name. I've grown up, met & worked with people from all over the world. I would never judge a French, African, Indian name etc.

bobbypinseverywhere that was me and not to the op, to a pp saying she could "see through" people who gave their children a name from a higher social class. Suggesting she gains some pleasure from knowing their rightful place.
Would it be better if I said that was the way someone I'd class as an utter fucking bitch would behave?

Although I always think of Polly as in 'Polly put the kettle on' Nursery rhyme and Rupert as in 'Rupert the Bear'

@GinDaddy I'm an immigrant (from an Anglophone country) and I completely agree, although as you said, it's been going on for so long that it has faded into the background noise, hence all the posters saying "Oh but Oliver has been trendy for ages!".

As a non-Brit, I am surprised by how being openly socially aspirational is so taboo. Only here would Carole Middleton have come in for such hatred, which only calmed down when another middle class would-be royal came on the scene.

Social mobility doesn't happen overnight. If you come from a very working class background, maybe didn't have an ideal education or the sort of resources you now see open doors, you might want to "get your ducks in a row" (to use a fave Mumsnet phrase!) early on for your own children. While that might include moving to an area with better schools, tennis lessons and prepping your kids for university, it will probably START with picking Isabelle instead of Jade.

But you're hardly going to post on Mumsnet and actually SAY "I picked Isabelle because I have social aspirations" though, right? You're going to say "I have no idea what you mean by this. The very idea!" There's no harm in that at all. I think social aspirations and economic improvement go hand in hand, and can only ever be positive (unless they make you unhappy!).

Oh, definitely. My mother chose names that she associated with Musical and Upper Class people in films, especially the middle names. Louis, Terence, Anne, Leigh.

Backfired a bit, though - she pronounced Louis as Lewis, Anne as AN, spelled Leigh as LEE and one of us has a middle name from the character played by Grace Kelly in High Society. Yup. Tracy.

I do however expect certain folk to gravitate towards the names I mentioned, simply because like German SUVs and F&B painted furniture, it's all aspirational etc

Both of my children are called one of the names on your list, I have a German SUV and my furniture is painted F&B, and we have a double barrelled surname 😂

I wouldn’t say I’m aspiring to be something - I like what I like, and I’m not trying to be better than I ought to be, I just am being me. I’m not trying to show off or impress anyone.

@aroundtheworldyet
But we didn't name him that for that purpose. If anything, it's upper class conitations out me off a bit. But I really didn't care and dont because it suits him.
The argument would suggest people are naming their children certain names for the purpose of appearing a higher class that they are. I certainly didn't do that for my son because no one cares about name and class conitations.
And those that do are of an older generation and will be dead by the time DS is making his move in the world

Most of your examples are just traditional British names (or have been in Britain for long enough to be considered traditional).

My G.Grandad was called Harry. He was a coal miner.

@StealthPolarBear

Ffs I’m not being “nasty”, how silly (and not an argument”.

The example I gave - I know someone who shops at Waitrose and pays 600£ a month for a car lease but is struggling massively and has to borrow money from family members. She is presenting a specific facade to the world - that she has money/whatever class you want to pop in here - and it’s very obvious that that’s not the case. I’m just saying this sort of aspirational nonsense can be very silly.

People should pick names they like! Not o try to make themselves look what they think society thinks is “better”.

Anne as AN

How else would you say it?

Does anyone get the impression people like the op just love saying 'gotcha!' to people they consider to have ideas above their station?
Urgh. I'm not allowed to say nasty but urgh.

Read the article. I’m not saying it’s inherently bad, BUT you are at a disadvantage if you have one (in the UK anyway).

*I’ll take Oliver or Arabella any day over the current trend of awful double-barrelled names...

Lottie-Mai, Ella-Jade, Tallulah-Rai etc...*

I think most people here who are saying that there's no relationship between class and name choices can see that the Lottie-Mai sort of name is a social marker. Arabella is far more "neutral" - could be Scottish nobility, could be from one of the most disadvantaged communities in the country. I don't like the idea of anyone judging a disadvantaged mother choosing Arabella for her daughter for social reasons though.

I have noticed that upper class names are always called classic names. Even though the names I am told that are UC have changed over the last 40 years.
I suspect that classic simply means upper class.

And what id they happen to like these names you disapprove of? Clutch your pearls and increase your tutting!
Or just get your nose out.