To think this class-obsessed country uses DC's names to change theirs?

[GinDaddy]

I live in the South of England, I'm heading towards middle age, so this gives you some context before my OP, which is..

AIBU to think people are giving their DCs "posh" or "aspirational" names as status signifiers? (Which ironically immediately marks them out to me as such?)

I realise there's always been fashionable and unfashionable names since time immemorial. But what I'm talking about is the slew of names which I would previously only expect to hear on Made In Chelsea or Guy Pelly's guest list at Boujis.

Arabella. Annabelle. Isabelle. Amelia. Jasper. Oscar. Oliver (to be inevitably commuted immediately to Ollie in faux-braying tones). Hugo. Theo. Leo. Harry (not even bothering to use the proper Harold, just going straight to the diminutive because well, it sounds right).

It's just a bit odd really. People can and will call their child what they like, but why are so many folk (and it's always the same folk, the ones who are project managers, who love myWaitrose and head tilting, whose teeth chatter when grandparents offer DC a Kinder Surprise) enamoured with these names?

Can someone actually explain this to me? No one has ownership of names, but I cannot believe that some people aren't using this as some sort of social signifier. 15 years ago not everyone was called Ollie or Theo. I didn't know a load of Arabellas or Amelias, I knew a few but that was commensurate with the environment.

AIBU to think the popularity of these names comes from their associate social status?

There’s a Suzanne in my 8yo class, they call her Suzie, I should imagine they called her that because they like the name just as I called my youngest Theodore because it was my grandads name, we call him Ted. I’m saying it how I see it too, which is that people name their children’s names they love for a whole host of varying reasons wanting to sound ‘upper class’ is not something I have ever observed in any circumstance.

@aroundtheworldyet

Thank you for acknowledging the premise of the OP from your own experience. It is a very real thing.

I went to a boarding school - there really were not any Gary’s and Sharon’s. And if you had that name you would have stood out.

But that would not have been the case if you’d been at boarding school 50 years ago.

@CruCru

I have heard the "that name's not very aspirational" thing too, on here and IRL.

Suddenly however everyone's got amnesia on here, and no one ever considers aspiration or class when naming kids.

Google "Mumsnet head tilt", the definition has been discussed to death on here as you very well know already

I'm aware of what it is on here, but this isn't actually the real world op.

OP I completely agree with you. I’m not sure why you are getting such a hard time here - probably because the PP have children of similar names and would never wish to be thought as of ‘aspirational’ - as the notion of ‘social climbing’ to the middle classes is still a dirty subject. Plus class really, truly, still does exist in this country - I’m not saying that’s right/correct - but to pretend it doesn’t is very blind and naive.

@Bluntness100

I've seen head tilting in the real world. Sorry to disabuse you.

Yeah, those chavs are just getting ideas above their station! How dare they!

I disagree. Names are popular in particular generations and then you don't hear them again much among children for another 50 years or so. I don't think people are aspirational when they give their children names. It's more the case people are aware of names that will be looked down on such as Sharon, Tracey, etc so they avoid them.

I think in most cases ordinary folks (ie not royalty or true aristo’s) choose a name because they hear it or see it somewhere, and think, okay I like that. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, especially if parents don’t consider surnames or abbreviations. Sometimes parents choose something because it has a special meaning to them as individuals, for example, Brooklyn Beckham. Sometimes it’s something historical, a person they might admire.
Royals and aristo’s are often traditional family names, for example Northumberland Percy’s are nearly always Henry, Ralph or Hugh. Royal names will have all sorts of oddities, but also very traditional stuff like Albert, or Arthur, or David.

You have to be careful using TV names I think. One person’s aspirational programme, is another person’s viewing poison.

My DD is one you've listed. We named her after her late grandmother.

Surely though no one sits there and thinks ‘hmm I really like the name Oliver or Isabelle but we are poor working class scum so we’d better call our kid Frogmella.’

I marked KS2 SATs for some years. Over time it was noticeable that Charlotte and James tended to perform better than Kylie and Conor.

I am not from the UK - the names on your list were almost all used by my ancestors (miners, farm hands, maids etc.). Tradition decreed that no name should be lost, so you had to take up the names of you grandparents generation + the name of the saint you were born under (if RC) or sth from the old testament (íf ev.).

But there are enough name threads on here that indicate that children are heavily judged by their names and bullying is expected. Plus there are international studies indicating that teachers judge the abilities of a child by their name. So no wonder parents tend to be careful.

I don’t think so @CecilyP
But I’m happy to be proved wrong if someone who went to a boarding school then would like to pipe up!

And in any case it sort of proves the point! People go for aspirational names, even if they’re posh already.

Wether that aspiration is led by wanting your kid to go to oxford or based on celebrity names, people are still influenced by how they expect their children to be treated as they get older.

And that means that many of those classic posh names aren’t really seen as that posh anymore. Which this thread thread proves.

In fairness, it’s been going on forever. I have a Roman girl’s name (not Octavia) and my Grandma hated it - she thought it was peculiar and that my Mum was “showing off” by choosing it.

Haven’t read the whole thread, just the OP. What a nasty, sneery post that was.

@FlamingoAndJohn

No, in the same way that few people say "I've comfortably got the budget for a Tiguan but I'll best stick to that 10 year old Focus as that's my level".

You can consciously choose to have the Focus because you like it (and it's a decent car as it happens) but given the choice, most people want to progress.

So yeah, of course nobody does what you've described. You can't really dismiss my entire argument that way though.

Jasper makes me think of Jasper Carrott. Mind you, he has an MBE.

I agree with what you say: India, Fenella et al...aspirational names the middle classTHINK mark them out as speshul and far up the social pecking order. Certain names are exclusively picked for this reason.

However I will echo the other posters: "What is wrong with a bit of aspirational puffery and posturing?" Only in Britain can the words "social climber" be an insult. Other countries/cultures spin it as a tale of bettering yourself, succeeding against odds yada yada..

Here however the horrified and embarassed looks when someone even dares to imitate anything from the class above them...

And to the poster who said "this country is not class-obsessed" thanks babe you gave me a proper belly laugh

It's "always project managers that head tilt" - ok....

You only have to look on the Baby Names threads on here to see that some people are very concerned about not using names that are also used by poor or lower-class people 🙄

Not uncommon to see ‘I like that name but I do think it’s beginning to border on chavvy’ which basically means it’s becoming popular with people of a lower socioeconomic status so I want to avoid naming MY child with it even though I think the actual name is nice and I would use it if all those poor people didn’t start using it.

YABU. And your examples are really odd! Isabella or Oliver are really run of the mill names! Not saying not nice, just perfectly normal.

Harry is predominately short for Henry rather than Harold.

People seem to want to be what they aspire to, even if they cannot afford it and don’t seem to realise everyone else can see through that.
See through it to what exactly? You are nasty

I agree with most of the responses in here.

Interestingly, we live in an affluent commuter town village, and there are several Annabelles & Harry’s, who do all fit your stereotype. The children on the real ‘old money’, land-owning families here have names that seem much more old fashioned and are typically family names (Michael, Jeremy, Artemis, Sarah & Bethany). So, to me, the types of names you mention don’t sound particularly aspirational, just names that are fashionable with certain social groups.