Is Veganism the answer?

[ScreamingLadySutch]

"Something has gone far wrong with the public conversation of food when jackfruit, an unconvincing substitute for meat that’s usually imported in tins from Thailand, or a genetically modified fake meat burger dreamed up by Silicon Valley technologists, is promoted as a more ethical choice than a lamb chop from a British hillside. ...

Another obvious reality about the plant-based plan is that most people who adopt it will end up eating more ultra-processed food. But the ingredient list on vegan fake meat, dairy and egg products make my hair stand on end. Most of them are essentially a composition of heavily processed protein flours and water bonded with glues and additives, such as flavourings, colourings, and emulsifiers. It’s obvious to me that it’s the ultra-processed food we’ve started eating in the last 60 years that is driving the modern epidemic of ill health and obesity, not traditional foods, such as meat, in their unprocessed forms. ...

Now, compare that with a vegan diet. Unless you take a supplement, or eat an awful lot of vegan processed foods with added synthetic vitamins, you won’t get enough vitamin B12, because, as Harvard Medical School explains: ’There are no known plant foods that are natural sources of B12’. Now for me, any diet that leaves you deficient in vital micronutrients is a non-starter."

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I know someone who is so very committed to environmentalism not only are they a vegan but they only eat locally i.e. UK and seasonally produced food. Not an avocado in sight or a banana for that matter, no tins of jack fruit either. I admire it on the one hand but I am very partial to an orange!

I agree with environmental impact, and this is something of which everyone should be aware.

Almond farming has had devastating effects. Soya production against natural habitats, awful. (A lot of this ends up in animal food BTW).

But what I do not understand is why those critiquing vegans for not being perfect are unwilling to look at their own diet through the same lenses...
animal rearing requires a lot of water. The levels are eye watering (pun intended).
A large percentage of fish caught is used for animal food.
Most of plastic ocean the ocean is a result of the fishing industry.

Mudslinging and nitpicking isn't helpful.

Again... the mass overproduction, due to the mass consumption is the issue.

Everything needs the chance to calm
down and settle into a more natural rhythm. Which it simply cannot do at the current levels.

Voting with our purses, using consumer power, examining our own individual impact and consumption rather than attacking everyone, that is the way forward.

YAWN

I hate most of the PETA campaigns, but to be fair, I could find you thousands of misogynistic ads and campaigns for non-vegan products and causes.

Breastfeeding actually led me to become vegan. I didn't want another animal to go through all that work and pain for me, an unrelated species, rather than their own offspring. I don't agree with human bodies used as a commodity. Experiencing breastfeeding first hand made me realise that I needed to extend that compassion to other species too.

I never thought I would consider reducing the animal products in my diet. However, from recent reading and more information being shared in newspapers and programmes, I am currently persuaded that one way to help to reduce carbon emissions (obviously agriculture is not the only sector that needs to do this) is for the global population to eat less animal products than currently. My understanding is it’s largely developed countries who eat more animal products.

I am not going to try and be vegan but I am currently attempting to reduce meat and dairy in my diet perhaps half/half eventually. I mainly eat meals from scratch but I will use some vegan substitutes occasionally as well as non processed vegan meals.

Working out the carbon footprint of food doesn’t seem straight forward as air miles, water use, packaging all effect the total carbon emission of a food but so far I am reading veg flown from overseas still is less carbon than meat reared locally. Beef and lamb have the highest carbon footprint.

A vegan doesn't need to eat processed food. I eat mainly oats, fruits, potatoes, beans and veg. I don't like meat or meat like substances but if they help people get away from animal based products then I welcome them. Pizza isn't healthy so I don't see why you would think a vegan one would be, same as a big mac. (but everyone has an opinion about nutrition when you are vegan 🙄)

The supplement thing is also a red herring. Yes vegans have to take b12 (as it is an organism found in the ground which we used get from drinking untreated water and soil on veg etc. So I prefer not to get cholera, wash my veg and take b12. But do you know that alot of non vegans are b12 deficient and also that cattle are fed b12 (and other minerals) so cut out the middle man and take the b12 yourself 😁 (and the omegas that farmed fish have, they are fed that too).

Anecdata 8 know but I've been regularly tested for b vitamins and iron, even throughout pregnancy, and had no deficiencies. More than one midwife commented that my bloods were better than theirs. I'm vegan.

The published stuff is often written by journalists who are scared of change or get paid to have an opinion. Britain never used to be filled with lovely open grazing land yet that is what people assume because that's how it is today.

I really don't get why meat eaters care so much what vegans choose to eat.

If less land was being used to grow sugar (and meat!) there there would be more land to actually feed starving people. Eating meat is a privilege in the sense that people around the world are actually starving. ACTUALLY STARVING and land which would produce more crops to feed more people than meat is being used for livestock. But hark, don't let anyone say that because it goes against traditional values and the nice little idea on a butter packet with a farm and a happy cow.

I dont know if veganism is the answer to world over population. I find it all so complex - large pesticide mono crops bad, deforesting rain forest for beef bad. Theres too many people to do low intensity local stuff and i think the bits of the world where stuff can grow is getting smaller due to climate change.
Veganism is certainly a response to factory farming /slaughter methods that some people dislike.

I know the answer isn’t a shill paid to scare mums away from a mainly plant based diet by yelling ‘B12!’. I think the farming industry is becoming very scared of people reducing meat consumption and ‘think of the B12!’ Is becoming the party line.

Almost reminds me of the cigarette industry in the 1950s desperate to tell us all was well with smoking and it was actually good for you and I’m not even vegan (I’m a vegetarian).

The real villains are agribusiness and monoculture.

Farming isn't for everyone, but the actual sustainable and ethical option is small scale labour intensive mixed farming, which takes into account local conditions and the local ecology, to supply local markets.

I feel that the current vegan fad of eating horrendously processed meat substitutes will soon be outed for it’s unethical practices.
I feel sure that real vegans try very hard to get as much of their food as locally sourced and ethically sourced as possible.
Alas our climate isn’t conducive to many of the beans, seeds etc... that are needed to sustain a truly ethical vegan diet.

I have been horrified at the ingredient list on a pack of vegan burgers ... much of it is unsustainable and flown thousands of miles.

There needs to be a lot more research done on ethical and sustainable living; these are early, knee-jerk reaction days.

We eat meat but are being more selective and are introducing some meat free days.

Little steps.

Politics show this morning was interesting. Becoming a vegan for a year only equates to one flight. Personally I would rather continue to eat meat and dairy in moderatin and would rather not fly, I hate flying . Easy win for me.

Asthma inhalers was really interesting. I have read this somewhere before as well. The commentator was an asthmatic, and although advised caution, as not everyone can change, apparently there is an environmentally better inhaler, which saves a huge amount of carbon per year. He was happy that this could be his contribution, the whole program really being focused on what each individual can "reasonably" achieve.

Politics show this morning was interesting. Becoming a vegan for a year only equates to one flight. Personally I would rather continue to eat meat and dairy in moderatin and would rather not fly, I hate flying grin. Easy win for me.

That's interesting. I'm 34 and have been abroad 10 times in my life. I know several vegans that go abroad at least once if not twice per year. From an environmental perspective I do feel better if that's true.

However as I said earlier in the thread. I think by ans large the vast majority of vegans choose the lifestyle for animal cruelty reasons rather than environmental.

I think it is great that we are having these discussions and being more thoughtful about our impact on our environment.

I think the most ethical thing I can do, is continue to eat meat, but

1. much much MUCH less of it
2. only traditionally farmed and local - so grass fed beef, lamb, free range chicken and eggs etc
3. Local butter, milk and cheese
4. Fruit and veg that are local and in season only. Can't really be smug about Peruvian asparagus or Kenyan beans. Even Spanish broccoli!

Pretty much what all the chefs keep banging on about! Rather jealous of @gallgal's local access to seafood, that sounds amazing.

What other people do is entirely their choice to make, but that vegans and even vegetarians become malnourished in the space of a week ...

well, just take care you guys, and don't be too obsessive about it xxx