Are the police being U?

[WeHaveSnowdrops]

Friend "Em" witnessed a crime earlier this week. She gave her name and address to the police and said she'd be prepared to make a statement. They said they'd call round in the next few days. She said to phone first as she has a young family and would need to time it around school hours.

5 to 3 yesterday a knock on her door and two PCs wanted to take her statement. She explained they should have phoned first because she was on her way to collect her DS from school so it wasn't convenient.

The female PC apologised but the male said they could insist. And made as if to go in through the door. She told him to back off as she was not leaving her child with no one to collect him and to phone for a more convenient time. And she shut the door in their faces.

She put her coat on and her youngest in the pushchair and went down to the school. The police car followed her. Once she was there it drove off but they were obviously making sure she was telling the truth.

AIBU in thinking they had a monumental cheek? She thinks she won't bother with the statement now as she's very pissed off.

I'm a cop.

I'd advise your friend to put in a complaint about the male cops behaviour.
That isn't how police should be operating.

I’m not sure a complaint is warranted. Of course it’s up to your friend, but she could have visited the station instead and to be honest, he was rude and unthinking.

I know it's a minority view, and probably borne out of having a memory, but people in jobs that get to carry tasers and CS spray with access to colleagues with firearms don't get to be "rude and unthinking". If they want to work in that sort of role they can move back to civvy street.

I dread to think how he would have handled a situation requiring empathy and compassion - say a sexual assault.

I would have jjust asked them to come back in half an hour or however long it takes to collect her child from school?

I can just see OP's friend mouthing off to the police and slamming the door in their face (and playing it down in the (re) telling). Of course she may have been all sweetness and light, applie pie and motherhood, and the police rampant thugs and bullies...

Couldn't she just say yes that's fine can you just let us start with the child in your police car and we drive to the school pick up the other child and carry on . It would have saved there being two needs for he police to call and everyone wins.

Perfectly reasonable for your friend to complain or give feedback on the male officer and ask to give her statement to someone else. I think most people would feel intimidated being followed by a police car.

Because I can see that the OPs friend may have come across as not really caring about the victim. And I can see it may have come out of miscommunication. That is why I don’t think it warrants a complaint, which will take up unnecessary police time.

The policeman said that ‘they could insist’ which implies no conversation was had about putting the statement in at another time
E.g. We’ve come to take a statement (police may well have not any idea about school run times)
OPs friend - No, I’m gong to collect my child so please go away.
Police woman - I understand about your child.
Policeman - although we can insist that you do take a statement. (Bearing in mind, this policeman sees victims all the time, and may have just spoken to the victim, and knows if the statement isn’t taken the crime is not convicted and the criminal does even more damage, that said policemen has to deal with, so he’s under pressure and not sure when he can just pop back to take another statement)

OP could have at that point said
But I do want to make a statement and know how important it is. I just can’t leave my child unattended. What shall we do?

Instead she closed the door on them.

So I just think it’s not a clear case and I’d try sort out this verbally with the police rather than escalate to an official level as yet.

Giving a statement is entirely voluntary. They can not insist.

I can just see OP's friend mouthing off to the police and slamming the door in their face (and playing it down in the (re) telling).

The OP stated that their friend clearly asked the police to phone in advance. On the basis that had they managed that (admittedly complicated) request the OP would have had nothing to post about, I am inclined to believe the OPs version of events.

I don't think you're getting the full story here.

Police turn up to take a statement you have said you will give.

For a start off, there's a very high chance they didn't get the message that you wanted it during school hours. I live at a place which is hard to find if you put it in Sat nav. I tell any person coming with deliveries/gas/electric etc not to put our address in sat nav, and to find it using a slightly different address. I've lived here now over 10 years and that message being passed on has happened precisely twice.

Surely what you would say is: "Look, it's school pick up time. I don't have anyone to pick up my child. Can you come back later?"*

Instead she, according to her story, which will be bias to show her in a good light, tells them to go away and shuts the door in their face.
Does that really sound likely? And if she did, what impression has she given to the police? Not a good one. They're going to be wondering why she was confrontational and not wanting to give a statement.

*I've done exactly that, although at work, when I was just going out to fetch a sick child. They said "No problem. What time is convenient for you?"

For a start off, there's a very high chance they didn't get the message that you wanted it during school hours.

In which case there needs to be a boot->arse conversation to be had at the police station to sharpen up their procedures, if not attitudes. Rather than expecting the OPs friend to go along with their incompetence. Which generally just leads to more incompetence.

It's nice to hear of someone standing up to a pushy officer. The male sounds like a CF. Once she's calmed she should still give a statement (it's the right thing for the victim) but she should make a point of telling the department about the inappropriate behavior of the male officer.

She was perfectly civil until the male PC made as if to enter her home. Then she shut the door in his face. If he'd asked when would be more convenient, I'm sure she'd have told him.

But to tell her they could insist and attempt to enter was rude and bullying, especially after the female had apologised.

I agree they were probably just going the same way as her. They were still parked outside her house when she left for school and moved on as she was a way down the lane. Could have been coincidence but it made her feel uneasy.

The crime was committed by some men trying all the cars parked along the lane then finding one open and stealing a few things from it.

I would complain. If he entered her property without her permission that would have been illegal but he clearly intended to force her to accept this with his uniform. He sounds like a bully.

I know it's a minority view, and probably borne out of having a memory, but people in jobs that get to carry tasers and CS spray with access to colleagues with firearms don't get to be "rude and unthinking". If they want to work in that sort of role they can move back to civvy street.

I agree. And it's possible some people on this thread have only had contact with the police from a position of power. I've worked in enough homeless shelters to see the absolute worst of them. Most are professional but there are many who aren't.

I've also had occasion to tell a couple what a great job they did with very vulnerable people. Cuts both ways.

And it's possible some people on this thread have only had contact with the police from a position of power.

I have had a lot of dealings with the police. Which is why my views may not accord with the MN majority.

If you take all of the people that post on MN, and put them into uniform, you'd have a pretty accurate representation of a police force. Police officers are human and as such as racist, sexist, misogynistic, homophobic, dishonest, bullying etc etc as the society from which they are drawn. They do a very difficult and thankless job and each and every one of us owes them a collective debt we will never begin to comprehend. But at the end of the day they chose that job and by accepting to undertake it they need to earn the respect they deserve from us all. And if they do fall short it needs to be reported and acted on. Otherwise the rot will set in, and we'll be back in the 1970s when it was impossible to find a straight copper in London.

Amazing how some people bend over backwards to justify or explain away the police being arses.

I was in town yesterday and a police officer was moving a homeless man out of a doorway and kicking his stuff along the street. I remonstrated loudly but DH whisked me off (I was in my wheelchair) and told me not to get involved.

Absolutely awful behaviour though. My 13 year old son, who was with us, asked me if I though a family friend of ours, who is a police officer, went in for that sort of thing. I said I hoped not. But that’s one 13 year old with a bit less respect for the police now. (My Dad was a miner in the miners’ strike so my views are coloured anyway).

well they should have been nicer but they do a shit job and they are working for the victim, so I’d be inclined to give them leeway.

One thing that would help them ‘work for the victim’ is not pissing off witnesses to the extent that they no longer want to help.

Some of us just have a healthy scepticism of a double hearsay report from the OP!! You know, like all those threads where OP indicates she 'politely and calmly' said x, y and z (and then a speech in quotation marks fo,lows that even the most skilled orator would struggle to achieve). And you just know it didn't quite pan out like that.

Like I said earlier, Of course the friend of the OP may have been all sweetness and light, applie pie and motherhood, and the police rampant thugs and bullies...

(that was to @TinklyLittleLaugh)

Amazing how people are trying so hard to blame OP's friend for police officers being jerks. They're notorious for power tripping with the little bit of power they're granted by the state. It's not a massive mental leap to assume a (male) police officer would pull something like this. Thankfully there was a female officer there too instead of a second male one. The situation really could have gone sideways if both men were power tripping.

Some of us just have a healthy scepticism of a double hearsay report from the OP!!

No argument from me. However, sometimes it's the little things. For example reading:

The female PC apologised but the male said they could insist.

added a ring of truth to the narrative.

She's understandably annoyed by this rude policeman. But I hope she gives a statement anyway, for the victim's sake.

I have also seen a change in attitude depending who is watching. I've worked with young men and women of colour, homeless people and addicts. You'd be stunned to see the difference some white, middle-aged, middle-class eyes on a situation makes. So if you are that person, your skepticism is honestly come by.

And once again, not all police officers. But there are enough.

Mind you I remember the very bad old days when black teenagers would sew their pockets shut because of evidence planting and if you were cheeky, back of the van for a kicking. That's well within living memory for many communities.

How sweet to be called a liar by a total stranger.

Such a friendly place with all the troll hunters around.