EPIDURAL? Help me get it! can any hospital guarantee me one?

[ESEMEF63]

I've had 5 babies before, now with the 6th on the way I'm not prepared to go through birth without an epidural, I know birth and the pain for me is HORRENDOUS!
Problem is I've tried 2 hospitals in Manchester (where I live) and both have the same issue and 'hospital policies'' - wont give me an epidural till at least 5cm, and will only check me every 4hrs, so if I come in too early (as I dont want to miss the epidural either) then they find me 3.5cm open, they wont check me again for 4 hrs and by then i could miss the epidural which has happened past 2 times! I begged them to check again sooner but they wont. Another time, my labour wouldn't progress past 3.5cm for 12 hrs, I was in agony, (really bad back pain & contractions but only 10 mins apart) but they wouldn't even admit me onto the labour ward yet as i wasn't in 'established labour' so couldn't get any pain relief or Gas & Air which I begged for. when I did get onto labour ward the anaesthetist 'wasn't available''........
I'm panicking now, why cant I successfully get an epidural when needed?! Anyone know a hospital with high rates of Epidural given? Should i go PRIVATE? do they have enough experience with epidurals and will they give it earlier on? Maybe I should give birth in Belgium or some other country where I heard it is standard procedure to set you up for epidural soon after arrival!. HELP

alternatives of epidural?
somebody mentioned morphine? ? I thought you cant get morphine in labour as it goes through to baby. Can only have it to pass miscarriage?Are you sure you have the correct name, maybe you mean PETHEDINE?
Ive tied GAS & AIR, really amazing stuff- UNTIL gets to a certain point where the pain is just too overwhelming (say 8-10cm open which can take an hour or so) and then I start screaming right at the peak of the contraction when i'm totally out of control from deep pain. Like having a limb amputated with each contraction!

Tried PETHEDINE, didn't take pain away, still needed to use GAS & AIR with pethedine when contractions came. (I seem to have a very very very low threshold of pain or a very very much more painful experience that other woman who say birth was 'so amazing and beautiful'' but wont go into that now because its a separate discussion and wont help my situation)

Why do you keep having children? 😏

Its my dream ! just nightmare the giving birth!

Could you print off NICE guidelines to discuss at your next antenatal appointment. I would also email PALS to enquire if your Trust followed the NICE guidance and if not why not - www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg190/ifp/chapter/Pain-relief

Nice guidelines state that You should be able to have an epidural at any point if you want one, including during the early stage of labour.

Like any form of analgesia there are risks. Epidurals can slow labour down in that your contractions can become less frequent/strong also they are not guaranteed to work. As you are having your 6th baby if labour does not progress due to epidural the medics along with yourself will the have to consider is it safe to increase frequency strength of contractions with a hormone drip which for women of high parity such as yourself comes with another set of risks.

Epidurals can be sited earlier than the 4cm benchmark however as said above this in itself can lead to complications. I would speak to your midwife and even ask to see speak with the Head of Midwifery at your hospital.

I'm sure you are aware though as with most epidurals you will be on a bed with iv infusion running ctg monitor institu and will require a catheter if you cannot get up to toilet.

Goodluck with your labour. I hope it goes as you would like it to and you have an effective epidural sited as soon as you require it.

There is one way you can guarantee being examined more than every 4 hours. From third trimester, keep going in for ‘reduced movements’ -you will usually be offered an induction or elective c-section from 38 weeks which means a consultant will review your birth plan. If you tell them you want an epidural from before 5cm due to anxiety / ptsd then they can help arrange it

@GrumpyHoonMaine yes taking resources away in an already overstretched system is a brilliant idea. Fuck everyone else eh?
OP, no one is ever going to guarantee you an epidural because even going private there is a chance you might not be able to for a medical reason. You’ve copied through 5 labours, you can cope this time.
Diamorphine is offered in some areas as an alternative to pethadine.

Grumpy you are giving very bad advice inductions are not easy and can take up to 48 hrs to work they can be ineffective ending up with a non necessary caesarean section which at the end of the day is major abdominal surgery.

The reason you are examined 4hrly is to give the cervix a chance to dilate and end up with a normal delivery not an instrumental birth or major OP.

Giving advice on such an important matter is not good advice when you are not knowledgeable on all the risk factors.

You’ve coped through 5 labours, you can cope this time.
Doesn't make it easier going through it more times, makes it harder and more traumatic each time....! With my first I was so eager.....

Grumpy- I actually like your idea! something to get THEM nervous to give the epidural when I feel ready. my labours only PICK UP when the epidural is in , I dont feel its a big risk. IV infusion, catheter , even baby with Venthouse (which I dont think will happen, I've managed to push out a few 9lb+ babies without a tear) who cares, its a bigger risk letting me go through traumatic hell of pain leaving me crying inside for years and years never gotten over the pain. No big risk to babies itself birthing here.

Thanks everyone for your advice and kind words:
I'm actually looking for one of below 3 things:

1. Any one know of a UK NHS hospital that has a high statistics of woman getting epidural when they need it (meaning always staff on hand etc)? (one good experience with an epidural I could just put that down to good luck, I need more real statistics..)
2. Anyone had EXPERIENCE in any Private hospital with amount of anaesthetist really on hand? or epidural experience more than once?

3.anyone out there who is the anaesthetist him/herself at a private hospital, any words to add here ? would you recommend private as my salvation?

Trying from another angle, can your midwife/gp/obstetrician/yourself refer you to the hospital psychologist? You can discuss what’s happening for you and how it’s impacting you beyond the birth.

Psychologists then can help write a “sensitive birth plan” which is different to you making your own up on a piece of paper and could include early epidural. If you’re needing blood tests etc they can look at the best way to do this as well and have you well prepared for what’s going to happen?

I agree with @VapingHot why have any more if you dont like the pain. You already have 5. Isn't that enough.

Possibly for the same reason I’m about to have to do it again too 🤦‍♀️
Unintentional pregnancy? I mean I’m used to the idea now and I love babies but I’d do anything not to have to go through labour again. The ‘fear’ definitely gets worse each time, you know what to expect and I’ve had pretty easy births but having to do it again is just not something I relish

I don't think you'll be able to find the statistics you're looking for, that's not the sort of data collected. But you could request an FOI request for all your local hospitals and go from there.

Problem with Manchester is both maternity hospitals are huge and really busy. However they won't be denying you an epidural at 3cm due to business. It will be policy based on research. But that doesn't help you.

Could you get a private midwife who will be with you 100% of the time and the s he can check appropriately and then escalate to anaesthetists when you need the epidural rather than waiting for the NHS midwives? Also when you're in, you could ring PALs/demand to speak to the matron if your requests aren't being met.

It's not like you haven't done this before so you know your body and your birth experience best.

Maybe try contacting PALs anyway to get to speak to matron re an appropriate plan for you.

Best of luck

*due to busyness

PS St Mary's at MRI has 2 anaesthetics on during the night plus consultant on call from home, and 5 on during the day (though one is dedicated to C sections) just for your info if that helps

Liverpool women’s are very supportive to epidurals . Could you transfer and ask consultant to write it in your notes?

I went private for this reason. Hammersmith hospital. Consultant was by my side through the labour with anaesthetist on standby. Epidural at the exact moment needed. Got to rest until it wore off & easy pushing after. Beautiful birthing experience. PM me if you need consultant details.

My dil had diamorphine during her laat two labours . Never had it myself but it worked fantastically (i was there) and she didnt want an epidural once shed had it

I dont think tbe2y give it too early on either though

I was denied an epidural, it’s not helpful to you but I begged and cried and they fobbed me off and I never got one. They did not believe I was in pain

It later turned out they made a mistake and turned my hormone drip up far too high too quickly and had to reset it and start again. Hence why it hurt so much and went on for so long

So basically you want a baby without actually experiencing LABOUR. Go private. Don't expect the NHS to fund your whimsy.

Please don’t go in for imagined RFM

Do not go for an elective c section of you have a low pain threshold.... You are likely to have weeks of pain and similar arguments for postop pain relief as you've been having for an epidural. Plus being incapacitated with 6 children to look after...

What an incredibly ignorant and nasty post, serialtester.

The OP is not asking for pain relief out of ‘whimsy’. She has been traumatised by repeatedly suffering severe pain as a result of NHS underfunding and policies that treat all women as a uniform entity, rather than receiving sensitive, individualised medicine based on her own needs.

She’s wise to be thinking about how to avoid further suffering, and the risk of being further traumatised.

Your post has also has an unpleasant whiff of old-fashioned misogyny in its bossing about ‘you want a baby without a actually experiencing LABOUR’. Are you one of those idiots who believe women ‘should’ suffer pain in labour?

Hilarious that you write that as though it's some kind of bad thing. Obviously having an epidural doesn't mean you don't experience labour anyway, that's just stupid, but if it did, fine.

I think it would be worth discussing your feelings and asking for an anaesthetic consult OP. You may have to push for it.

Have you ever thought about having hypnotherapy? It sounds to me like you are really working yourself up. Understably contractions are the absolute worst!!. And from very early on I wanted pain relief. By the time I got to the hospital, I was examined and told to push straight away. I'm so glad it ended up that way too because no time to work myself up over it. The mind is a very powerful thing
Good luck with your birth, all will be worth it in the end

I've had 3 labours - 2 with epidural. I'm not a misogynist by any stretch. However I can't for the life of me condone the use of NHS funds to accommodate this nonsense.