Should the British army take some control of crime/security in the London area?

[pettswoodmumof3]

What do you all think? There seems to be a precedent in other countries of military involvement when crime reaches a certain level.
I have always been quite relaxed about crime statistics but it seems so many people are having a bad experience now and are scared and something needs to change. Just heard another horror story of two 16 year old girls being stop and fake searched by a gang in Blackheath village of all places. So many pointless knife deaths. Some Londonders I have spoken to say they think the criminals know they have the upper hand and that the police just don't have the time to show up quickly for offences like car theft. Do we really want to be the murder capital of the world? My kids are early teens and I have to admit I am starting to worry too (and I am definitely not a paranoid person).

Great! Let’s put the paras on the streets to control unruly civilians. That always goes well.

YABU.

And why just London? Why would the rest of the UK not deserve extra protection or what ever you’d call it? You’re being fucking ridiculous!!

Speaking as someone who has worked in PR for nearly 20 years (16 of them in London, even - gasp - Lewisham) you sound awfully like a journalist, op

Good grief. London is not the murder capital of the world. It would have to go a very, very long way before that happens.

The fact stabbings have risen in recent years have more to do with the swinging cuts to local services and the police than anything else.

The money and time spent deploying armed forces on the streets of our capital (ridiculous idea!) could be better spent on policing, youth services, statutory child protection services and health. All of which would likely reduce youth crime.

Getting the army involved in law-and-order is a crisis measure. There isn't a crisis. London has never been much safer than it is now. (One claim that things are worse than the past that I looked into, it turned out that things were fractionally worse than ten years ago, but still better than the vast majority of the 33 years I've lived in London.)

rising knife crime has to do with crackdowns on firearms too, more difficult to get hold of. Most of the stabbing in London are drug dealers stabbing other drug dealers.

Which paper you working for OP

France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Poland and probably more I am not aware of.

Mostly former totalitarian dictatorships then?

Legally, this isn't even possible. If you are a journalist, I'd suggest you do some research into CCA and MACA before asking any more questions.

Exactly the same as the police the military are running at their absolute limit, there isn't the funding for them to do that

Yes, why not, they can also be used to address the shortage of teachers, nurses and crossing patrols. Failing that, public services could be properly funded.

An absolutely ridiculous idea
Proper Government Funding of the Police, YouthServices,Education etc would go a long way to helping these issues

The army are not trained to police. Look what happened in Northern Ireland in 69 when the army were sent into a civil police situation the escalation was horrendous for the entire community and them.

Fund the police properly, fund youth work, fund schools and all work together on ‘its takes a village to raise a child’.

If we are a country thaty wants to cut taxes, hence public spending, hence public services, then we will insufficient youth services, insufficient probabation officers, insufficient mental heath support, insufficient police, insufficient prison officers and inadequate prisons.

Why would we want to spend money on soldiers with no training or experience to fill the gaps?

if we want decent public services, we can have them.

Do we?

London is far from being the murder capital of the world but I find it incredibly dismissive when people accuse others of being hysterical when they are voicing their fears for the safety of their children, as the OP was. The murder rate in London is at its highest in a decade, this is fact. Our government and the wider society are failing a generation of mainly black young people by failing to tackle this problem and responses saying don't be hysterical frankly make my blood boil.

As a lifelong Londoner, I think YABVU. Yes, there is a lot of knifecrime (OH actually had to call the Police yesterday because a young lad was brandishing a knife at another boy, just around the corner from our home).

The solution to this is NOT Military Rule (frankly I think that is a fucking insane idea that would lead to many more deaths than we are seeing now). I fully agree with @InOtterNews that we need Increased police funding, coupled with investment in proper youth services

IMHO this is what happens when young people grow up in/surrounded by poverty & with little hope for their future. And with another 4 years of Tory government, I sadly don't see things improving before they get much worse...

About this "murder capital of the world" notion: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate

Not even in the top fifty. Apart from the three in RSA, all the cities in the top fifty are on the far side of the Atlantic from here.

Absolutely not.
Involving the army in domestic policing is the thin end of the wedge to a police state. Massive over-reaction. The army is not equipped to deal with this and it would lead to a huge drop in confidence around policing and encourage restrictions on civil liberties. Just a disastrous idea.

This is a massively hysterical interpretation of crime figures of the kind which can only have come from someone who doesn’t live in London. I am not minimising the knife crime epidemic which is a huge problem but you do realise don’t you that the fact these episodes still get on the news is a testament to their rarity?
I have lived in London most of my life and I would rather the crime rate went up tenfold than have the fucking army on the street.

I've lived in London all my life.

Never been a victim of crime, never witnessed one.

Calm down dear. I met some Americans on a plane a few months ago who were taken aback by how clean and safe London was compared to many American cities.

Better policing - more police officers, well trained, focussing on real crime, not allegations of hate speech when someone tweets about GCSE level biology.

Big push to tackle gang violence and county lines gangs. I personally support decriminalisation of most drugs as long as the legal drugs trade would be extremely tightly controlled and heavily taxed, like alcohol and tobacco. Resultant tax revenues would fund the cost of rehab programmes.

The criminal justice system is on its knees. We need proper funding of the CPS, the courts, prisons, probation services and reverse cuts in legal aid so everybody gets a decent defence. Far more effort to assess and treat all prisoners for mental health and addictions problems and to work on their literacy, numeracy and social skills, so they have a chance of getting work on discharge.

Better youth services.

No need whatsoever for the army except in the most extreme circumstances.

I am definitely not a journalist! However, I am worried about rising crime rates and I think we need a major structural change. This was just a thought - having grown up in different countries where this is more of a norm. So we have a professional trained and expensive military - there is now precedent of them being on "standby" in case of terrorist attacks (ie extreme circumstances). In fact, they now advertise on their home page "ranging from support to the police following a terrorist attack", floods at home etc. So most of you think if they were involved in tackling drugs/gangs (for example, raids on known parks/meet up points) this would backfire into riots? Night time curfews for children under 16 = police state?

The key phrase, OP, is 'support to the police'

So most of you think if they were involved in tackling drugs/gangs (for example, raids on known parks/meet up points) this would backfire into riots?
Well, military intervention didn't go brilliantly in Northern Ireland, did it?

Night time curfews for children under 16 = police state? Makes me think of Nazi Germany, TBH (and yes, I know, Godwin's Law )

Night time curfews for children under 16 = police state?

Yes, very much so.

IntermittentParps - politically, I sit firmly in the centre, not on the far right! But yes, conversation killer it is but I will not take it personally:) I acknowledge I have very different cultural influences. It is fascinating to me this British fear of ID cards etc. We need to learn from our mistakes in history not let it tie our hands in the future. What would be wrong with a new expanded & more civil arm of the military there to "support" the police in lots of different situations ie. riots, further flooding due to climate, sudden spikes in crime in specific areas/gang culture. Are you saying no prime minister would ever go there because ideologically as a nation we believe firmly in a strong demarcation between police vs army?