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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Laurence Fox is an ignorant, spoilt brat.

642 replies

longwayoff · 20/01/2020 22:49

What is wrong with this fool? Apparently in James Delingpole's podcast, heavy sigh, he criticises Sam Mendes for featuring a Sikh soldier in WW1 film. Ever heard of the British Empire, Laurence? How many Indians died for Britain? AIBU to say LF is being deliberately divisive and provocative and evidently doing his own publicity?

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RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 21/01/2020 16:50

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Lizzie0869 · 21/01/2020 16:55

@WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles Yes whoops I do mean Richard I. Richard III was the one who was believed to have murdered the princes in the tower. Embarrassing and I'm a history enthusiast. Blush

OrangeCinnamon · 21/01/2020 16:58

@Wingedserpentfliesbynight great link I had not found that and the docking of the ships at Portsmouth is the intended subject of one of my latest short stories.

Why are people getting so outraged by the inclusion of a Sikh in a film? There are bigger perceived injustices out there.

Lizzie0869 · 21/01/2020 17:05

What I do dislike is when films about events that are historical change history. I don't mind a fictional story, like Robin Hood, because they're not claiming to be historical. But I'm talking about films like the film Elizabeth with Kate Blanchett in the title role. It completely changes historical facts, I hate that because the historical facts are fascinating in themselves so why change them?

Rant over!

Planeplane · 21/01/2020 17:20

But I was actually thinking of the kids' Maid Marion series written by Tony Robinson.

To be fair, I'm not a fan of tokenism but Maid Marion was hardly historically accurate. I don't think Robin Hood actually had a white Elvis suit and I also suspect that snooker wasn't invented by a local villager. I do think that anything goes with kids TV.

Smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 21/01/2020 17:23

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ScreamingLadySutch · 21/01/2020 17:41

All you 'he's a knobber' etc just don't seem to understand that you are part of the problem.

Do any of you READ?

Whether you like it or not, LF has touched a big chord:

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/like-laurence-fox-sick-woke-groupthink-sense-sea-change/

"But here’s the thing: there’s a sea change coming. We know that from whistle-blowers who were so appalled by the “writing on the wall” at Oxford that they came to the Sunday Telegraph with their story. We know it from the increasing number of commentators speaking out about the Manchester grooming scandal police chose to ignore for fear of increasing racial tensions. We know it from the staff members who accused the NHS’s only specialised gender clinic of “silencing debate” at the weekend after it was discovered that The Tavistock Clinic had withdrawn a book in which academics question the clinical and ethical basis for allowing children to transition. And we know it from the fact that, after having issued their woke fatwa on Fox, Equity promptly deleted their comments, assuring their members that “a more considered response is being discussed”.

There’s the problem with ideological prefabs. Thrown up in a hurry, without consideration, they collapse all too easily. So while Twitter continues to be hilariously wrong about every topic it touches and gradually morphs into a kind of AA group for the pathologically un-self-aware (presided over by Lily Allen), we, the long-silenced, should probably start getting used to the sound of our own voices again."

And:

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/21/unwoke-awake-victimhood-wane/

"Laurence Fox, who shot to fame in political debate last week after neatly repelling claims on the BBC’s Question Time that criticism of the Duchess of Sussex are racist, has identified this as the central false doctrine. Don’t automatically believe, he says. Instead you should “listen to the victim”, and then make up your mind on the basis of the evidence.

How did we ever get away from this obvious truth? If people know that, by claiming victimhood about anything they will automatically be believed, many of them will be tempted to use the cloak of victimhood for their own purposes. This is not a grown-up state of mind, and it rightly creates a sense of gross injustice in the minds of those falsely accused, whether they be a whole group, such as men, or a named individual.

There are always millions of people who feel victimised, some with good reason. But it must be doubtful that there will ever be enough to take political power. Eventually, the majority of our culture will turn against those who claim victimhood at their expense, and cry out for a more just approach. I believe this is what is happening now."

ScreamingLadySutch · 21/01/2020 17:46

And: (221K views)

and:

A comment: "Trust the left to twist it and say he was "seeking attention", when actually he was expressing an opinion which most people happen to agree with. This is why they are losing, they have no logical arguments anymore and simply pulling the race or gender card whenever it suits them"

Sorry for you, Laurence Fox touched a chord.

Just as with Donald Trump and Brexit, the Silent Majority have had enough

chomalungma · 21/01/2020 17:50

A comment: "Trust the left to twist it and say he was "seeking attention", when actually he was expressing an opinion which most people happen to agree with

So you think that most people who have never experienced racism think that there is little racism in this country?

Even though they will never experience it?

I don't see how a white person can say there is little racism in this country.

Just as I don't see how a man can say there is little sexism in this country.

derxa · 21/01/2020 17:52

The grooming scandals have been going on since the 90s with thousands of girls involved. How come there seems to be so much more outrage and vitriol about Laurence Fox's personal opinion than there seems to be about the rape, slavery and mistreatment of thousands of vulnerable girls and the cover-up by various authorities. It's unbelievable. Exactly

TheRealMcKenna · 21/01/2020 18:08

I think I’ve seen it all now....

www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/01/21/laurence-fox-question-time-racism-twitter-jarvis-dupont-trans-misgender-parody/

Next he’s going to be in trouble for calling Titania MacGrath a fcking btch.

The world has gone completely mad.

TheRealMcKenna · 21/01/2020 18:09

www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/01/21/laurence-fox-question-time-racism-twitter-jarvis-dupont-trans-misgender-parody/

This has gone beyond ridiculous.

Will his comments to Titania McGrath now be under scrutiny?

RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 21/01/2020 18:09

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Planeplane · 21/01/2020 18:15

RunningAwaywiththeCircus

I completely agree. I find the idea that only the victim of racism can define it scary. It's thought police territory. Society doesn't seem to care any more about innocent until proven guilty. If I say something completely innocuous but someone else sees it as racism then it's racism...even if I didn't mean it that way. Add to that the fact that people are frightened to admit how they vote, what their opinions are. It seems to me that's the start of fascism.

Noodlenosefraggle · 21/01/2020 18:20

Colourblind casting and historical accuracy are two different things though. Does the fact that one of the actors is sikh make a difference to the plot? (I havent seen the film so dont know) We need to give British actors of all races the opportunity to work in the film and TV industry. If that particular actor was only able to get work when someone made a film about Sikh's there would be no sikh actors because they'd find it almost impossible to make a living. At the moment, because we make so many historical dramas our excellent Black and Asian actors have to bugger off to the US, taking their substantial tax payments with them because they cant get enough work in this country.

derxa · 21/01/2020 18:28

On the other hand over the last few years we've heard alot of about men of Pakistani ethnicity abusing girls but very little about white men doing the same. "We've heard about" as if it's some mythological tale.
It's a scandal and continues to this day.

GulliBelle · 21/01/2020 18:41

I think a lot of what of says is a dig at his ex wife. Billie Piper has tweeted about Boris shaming single mothers.

He needs to move on and stop being so bitter, it isn't Billie 's fault she is so much more successful than him.

IhateBoswell · 21/01/2020 18:49

On racism and Asian sex gangs: 'We need to call out racism when it's seen and stand together to condemn it - but for fear of sounding racist there have been series of horrific things happening in Manchester and other towns all across the north of England and we should be careful and not call someone racist because they don't agree with you'.

That was the quote LF made regarding the grooming gangs.
Sounds pretty accurate.

ChinookPilotsGoVertical · 21/01/2020 19:02

Indian army units fought on the western front in WW1. They fought as formed units - regiments, brigades & divisions.
One lone Sikh in a British army unit is not accurate, it's a bit too "look how diverse I'm being".
If you don't like it, fair enough, that doesn't stop it, and you, being wrong.

chomalungma · 21/01/2020 19:08

Because they have never or rarely observed or heard

That is EXACTLY what men say about sexism. That it's rare because it's never or rarely observed.

If you’re accused of racism and admit it, you’re racist. If you’re accused and don’t admit it, you’re unconsciously biased/white privileged/in denial/a bit thick etc

He was not being accused of racism. He was implying that there was little racism in the UK. Just like men say that there is little sexism in the UK Men who haven't experienced it or seen it so it can't exist.

Lizzie0869 · 21/01/2020 19:25

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Noodlenosefraggle · 21/01/2020 19:29

He needs to move on and stop being so bitter, it isn't Billie 's fault she is so much more successful than him.
I think we have got to the crux of the issue here. Billie had the audacity to leave him, win awards, write and direct a film and have a baby by someone else.

Pjlady · 21/01/2020 19:30

Also agree with @Amanduh. People are tired of the "woke brigade" taking offence and hysterically shouting down other people's opinions that do not agree with theirs. Maajid Nawaz is calling for a public inquiry into the police turning a blind eye to the grooming gangs but the woke brigade appear to be silent in their condemnation to this outrage and then wonder why people tune them out.

Lizzie0869 · 21/01/2020 19:39

How come there seems to be so much more outrage and vitriol about Laurence Fox's personal opinion than there seems to be about the rape, slavery and mistreatment of thousands of vulnerable girls and the cover-up by various authorities. It's unbelievable.

I agree, I also don't understand why his opinion matters so much anyway. He's just someone who I see whilst watching ITV3. I'm much more concerned about the victims of sexual exploitation.

RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 21/01/2020 20:00

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