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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Advice on inheritance disputes

999 replies

Ilovechinese · 20/01/2020 14:02

Hi I'm just wondering if anyone on here has been to court to contest a will and if so how long did it take to get to court and what the process is. I'm going through this at the minute (well not got to court yet) but have a caveat in place to stop probate.

OP posts:
Ilovechinese · 22/01/2020 18:28

The estate is not worth a great amount but obviously more than 20k or I wouldn't be fighting ot and while some will say it's not worth it and it's not a lot it is still a lot of money to me.

OP posts:
Changeembrace · 22/01/2020 18:29

You. Don’t. Stand. A. Chance. OP

Herringbone31 · 22/01/2020 18:35

@Ilovechinese

Ok. Is it worth the estate AND THE EXTRA?

Say it costs 200k. You ok with that? It also won’t be quick. A good 5 years.

Ilovechinese · 22/01/2020 18:38

@OneForMeToo has dont make me laugh! As I said this is not about greed its about getting justice and what is fair and right. He us greedy because they purposefully looked after her to avoid care fees and also to manipulate her into doing the will while miles away from other family and under their care. I know this was his plan all along. Some people in this world only care for themselves and I've seen similar posts on here like a lady I read about on here the other day saying her mother gave her sister her house to avoid care fees and so she wouldn't get anything. It's truly evil to do that to your own child and sibling without a good reason

OP posts:
HeronLanyon · 22/01/2020 18:41

Op - the only reason for asking Bout value was connected with whether it will be swallowed up in fees no matter what the outcome and also relevant to whether you may be liable for life altering bills.
Good luck. I’ve just been through the probate process As an executor (and beneficiary) and even when straightforward it is long drawn out expensive and stressful.
When you see your solicitor I’d advise taking someone. someone unconnected sensible and level headed. It’s what you need right now. Ask questions particularly about fees and money and the instalments etc. Really understand what you are getting into (if anything). Your solicitor should put their advice in writing after the appointment (which will cost). Read it carefully. Have a friend who has just contested a will (unsuccessfully) is now complaining about her solicitor. She asked me to look t the correspondence. There in black and white was the advice not to pursue it and later the careful advice to stop proceedings. Her anger and hurt meant she had literally not read or taken that in at all. Really important through all the hurt to put yourself first and not add further troubles by ignoring or disregarding advice.
I really hope you manage to get to a place where you can look back on this period and think ‘well that was crap’ but I did the right thing for the right reasons and it’s all ok.

SecretMillionaire · 22/01/2020 18:56

You are hurt and understandably so at what you perceive to be an inequitable split in terms of money and affection.

You haven’t stated what was offered to you and your other siblings or the value of the estate and this is quite a crucial piece of information.

However I would ask you to take a step back. Take the emotion out of it and think logically. Is the point of principle worth the mental strain and the possibility it could break you financially? Are you prepared to
gamble your children’s future to prove a point?

SecretMillionaire · 22/01/2020 18:58

I would add that being morally right is not the same as being legally right.

Ilovechinese · 22/01/2020 19:05

@SecretMillionaire you have it spot on. It is upsetting to be perceived as "greedy" by a poster on here when I only wanted us all to get an equal amount. The greedy one is the one who wants the lot and you are right in that I feel it shows she must have loved that person so much more than us to do this so it's as if the money represents the amount of love she has for us so totally not about greed but that money would be a great help to my life

OP posts:
sweeneytoddsrazor · 22/01/2020 19:18

Oh OP your pain is obvious but step back and be kind to yourself. You said she wasn't the DM you wanted in life and she hasn't made up for it in death. If you win those feelings aren't going to change. And you arent going to win by enough money to significantly change your life. I really think pursuing this will have a far more detrimental effect on your life than any kind of change for the better a positive outcome would have if you understand me.

Bartlet · 22/01/2020 19:21

You obviously can’t afford this if you’re a skint single mother living in rented accommodation. Your mother sounds like an unpleasant woman who wasn’t very nice to you in life so it’s more likely that she’s be cruel in death.

Don’t pursue this or you’ll ruin your and your children’s lives and finances in a pointless unwinnable battle.

titchy · 22/01/2020 19:32

I don't think you've really understood the fees situation. Several experienced posters have said you won't win. You weren't financially dependent, you didn't have a good relationship, your sibling looked after her.

Losing means you pay your costs AND your brothers costs. He won't pay anything. The estate won't pay anything. You will. Tens of thousands for his solicitors and tens of thousands for yours. Do you have £50,000 spare?

Changeembrace · 22/01/2020 19:36

* He us greedy because they purposefully looked after her to avoid care fees *

Perhaps that was his motivation but shared by many.
Plus - the reality of looking after someone terminal yourself is no easy thing.

zzzzzzzx · 22/01/2020 19:44

You could potentially make a Larke v Nugus request and get medical records, Solicitors notes etc however, the Solicitor clearly thought she was of sound mind when the Will was made and the medical team will have assessed her as being of sound mind if she was making her own decisions about her treatment.

Singlebutmarried · 22/01/2020 19:51

If the dates in the will for deceased and witnesses are different then that’s probably the best precedent for getting it overturned.

Ilovechinese · 22/01/2020 19:51

@titchy when I say he cared for her well he didnt actually care for her he got his partner to who use to be a nurse but she had no previous relationship with my mother so it clearly wasn't out of love she was doing it. I was the one who use to visit all the time and go shop for her and help her wash. He is to visit occasionally but never for that long. She wasnt the most loving but I always loved her and use to ring and visit her all the time so I in no way deserve this

OP posts:
Jellybeansincognito · 22/01/2020 19:53

Why aren’t you listening op?
I know you’re hurt, and you don’t think it’s fair but that’s tough.
There are rules regarding capacity and it seems that things have been done this way because it was what was wanted.

Do yourself a favour. I doubt a solicitor would even touch this and help you fight it.

Jellybeansincognito · 22/01/2020 19:54

‘when I say he cared for her well he didnt actually care for her he got his partner to who use to be a nurse but she had no previous relationship with my mother so it clearly wasn't out of love she was doing it. I was the one who use to visit all the time and go shop for her and help her wash. He is to visit occasionally but never for that long. She wasnt the most loving but I always loved her and use to ring and visit her all the time so I in no way deserve this‘

None of this is relevant?
And deserve what? you don’t deserve to get her money?

Why do you believe you’re so entitled to it? It was hers, she would have given it to you had she wanted to.
This was clearly not what she wanted.

titchy · 22/01/2020 20:00

Do you want to be bankrupt? Cos that's what will happen if you pursue this. Principles aren't worth much when you're in temporary accommodation miles from your kids schools cos no one will rent to someone who's bankrupt.

Ylvamoon · 22/01/2020 20:06

Ilovechinese a serious piece of advice: YOU CAN'T EAT PRINCIPLES. WALK AWAY.

l was i a similar situation many years ago, oh it was tempting to fight it, as a % was legally mine. But greedy guts had years of hiding and moving assets around. It would have taken a lot of time & money to proof anything and evenmore to get an inheritance. Instead I blissfully carried on withmy life. Best decision ever

LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood · 22/01/2020 20:20

OP. The threshold for showing testamentary capacity is very low. As it should be. Or it would unfairly prevent people from making valid wills in old age and when near death.

The test for adult, non dependant children to claim under the Inheritance Act is quite high. And is limited to ‘reasonable maintenance” not capital provision (though the maintenance can be capitalised if that makes sense).

It will cost you a huge amount of money to take this to court. But it won’t cost nearly so much to get advice from a lawyer expert in probate matters.

Might I suggest that you ask your solicitor at an early stage to have a conference or a written advice from a specialist barrister. This won’t be cheap at all. But it will focus everyone’s mind and you will have a much clearer idea of whether your case has real merit. Please remember lots of cases are arguable. But what you need is one that is winnable; or it’s all for nothing. Your losses will not be capped at the estate in question. If you lose after a lengthy court fight you risk losing In costs everything you have (potentially, obviously I don’t know the extent of your assets).

So, I’m not suggesting you give up just yet. But I do suggest you get really focussed, specialist legal advice as swiftly as you can. And take that advice if everything is pointing to a costly argument that is just about runnable but not likely ultimately to succeed.

Silenceofthebams · 22/01/2020 20:21

@Ilovechinese,I can understand exactly how you feel on this.
I had a fight over a will dispute after the death of a loved one which I ultimately won. What it took out of me though sometimes I wonder if I did the right thing.
Good luck with what you decide

Lailaha · 22/01/2020 20:53

What I meant, OP, is that you could be made bankrupt or forced to sell your home. And if a judge thought you were doing things vexatiously (so deliberately dragging out a case that had little merit in order for the house to devalue etc) that would go against you in the judgement, as is shown in the bit you quoted above.

The good news, though, if you have no assets, is that you're not likely to be found in contempt of court by refusing (being unable) to pay if costs are awarded against you - so prison is unlikely, as you won't be deliberately not paying what the court has ordered.

If the situation is not that you've been written out entirely (ie disinherited) but you've not been given the third you believe that you are entitled to, unfortunately, you are even less likely to win.

You can, of course, force almost anything to court - virtually everything is arguable, as PP said--but bear in mind that a very hopeless case can be considered to be vexatious also, and you're much more likely to end up having costs go against you as a result.

I remind you of what my colleague said: under a million and lawyers are the only winners.

I really get how distraught you must be feeling. But based on what you've said here, there's a very real chance that you could turn this into a catastrophe even worse than falling out with your sibling and being as let down by your mother in death as much as she let you down whilst she was alive. Of course you are incandescent with rage, on top of everything, but don't let that drag you into cutting off your nose to spite your face, and in doing so, put your children's future at risk.

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 22/01/2020 21:01

I don't think you are being greedy OP but I do think you are missing something important. You don't have a right to your mother's money. It was hers to give how she wanted, and that's what she did. It isn't fair and you feel very hurt, but there it is.

What you are planning to do in spending money you can't afford to pursue this will deprive your own children. You must surely see the irony in that?

Tfgjiknfr · 22/01/2020 21:16

OP, Maybe it would be more helpful to look at why your mother might have changed her will. I imagine she was scared and felt vulnerable. I also imagine she was hoping to live longer than she did. She may have been feeling very grateful to your brother and his girlfriend for looking after her. She may also have been happy to have the girlfriend look after her rather than a relative. It’s not unusual to prefer an outsider to look after you rather than your immediate family. The fact she was a former nurse would make this even more likely. You have young children and are skint and living in a rental - she might have thought ( rightly or wrongly) you weren’t the best suited To help her. You admit she has always been difficult so why wouldn’t she be difficult at a time when she must have been feeling so vulnerable and scared.
Is it possible that your mother told your brother she would change the will so that she would feel that it was more likely he would continue to look after her?
Surely you can see how she might have been thinking about
herself and no one else at the time of writing her will?

Also, might she not have know how much her ‘estate’ was worth?

Tfgjiknfr · 22/01/2020 21:20

OP,
How about asking your brother to give you a smaller amount. Perhaps you and your other brother could write to him and ask for a few thousand? I suspect you would have more chance with that approach than the legal one.
Are there any other family that could support you?

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