To insist DH steps up to the plate with kid emotional labour?

[GreenGoffee]

DS last night had an emotional meltdown about his homework. The task was to write about your role model. It set him into a tailspin about how he has no role models and basically feels like an alien in his own skin and is hating the whole prospect of growing up.

I told him he was overthinking it and should write about his Dad - who is a very role-model worthy individual, as well as being basically a scaled up carbon copy on DS physically and emotionally. DS said that that would not be true, and anyway he couldn't write about his Dad because he doesn't actually know enough about him.

I hustled quite hard that his Dad was a very natural choice, and also a good person to connect to if he is feeling wobbly. Printed out a sheet of questions even that I'd googled up to make it easy for him to start.

I took him upstairs where DH was bathing DD (but actually gaming while keeping an ear out on the splashing) - dropped off DS with him, saying that DS needs to chat to him for homework, and making faces behind DS head to flag that DS was in a delicate emotional state. It might be a good point to say that DS is autistic - and probably DH too. Because I twice got "Goffee, your face looks funny, why are you gesturing" - so ended up leaving them to it & taking over DD - since I couldn't say anything more direct without embarrassing DS.

When I closed the door, DH was giving very short answers to all the questions. (Who was the most important person in your life? Dunno. What's been the happiest moment in your life? Dunno). DS reappeared ten minutes later still looking downbeat, saying that he had asked all the questions and still had no essay material. (And seriously - DH is an impressive individual - albeit kind of self-deprecating - and a constant presence in the kids lives).

Apparently I wasn't very kind in telling DH it was a lame effort.

I do know he's been a bit struggly - and we had 'plans' last night, which got derailed by the kids taking more time than usual to settle, but AIBU to have called it out as a weak effort?

For context, our older teen daughter has had a hard time last few years - and DH has been the biggest flag waver for "What she needs is a strong parental bond - just take her out more & talk to her more". I'm the SAHP - so a lot of the emotional about naturally falls to me - which I accept - and I run myself ragged trying to keep an ear to the ground with the kids emotional well-being (esp DD1 - who reserves 100% of the shit and drama for me).

I appreciate DH was bounced into the convo with DS without any warning - but that's how kids emotional collapses go IME - and he was both available and the right parent to take the conversation forward with DS. I wouldn't normally flare up as much as I did - but I'm pissed at the idea that I do the kid emotional labour as a default - regardless of how available or suitable I am for the particular task.

DS got up early this morning and wrote an essay on Nelson Fucking Mandela. Who is an upstanding historical figure - but DS literally knew zero about him before he opened the Wikipedia article. I'm worried for my son if that is genuinely the best fit for the description of someone he feels he can model on as he grows up. It feels like a missed opportunity and I'm still pissed and unrepentant about calling it out sharply.

Have you spelled out to dh he needs to send more time with his dc?

We had v similar situation with ours (both have AS) about the same homework!
My husband left me to manage it... your DH needs to understand that not helping with the emotional side of parenting will damage the bond between him and his children, as my childrens' has been damaged with their father.
and my husband isn't actually the parent with autism in our house!

If you think that your DH is autistic, how did you realistically think that dropping that task on him without any discussion was going to pan out?

Your wants aren't unreasonable, but I think your methods are.

That's not really where the conversations are at. He's running long hours in a stressful job.

The row in fact flared up more, because he said that DS was emotional because he was 'overscheduled' - which more specifically was that I took the kids out to the park on Saturday morning & to church on Sunday morning so that DH could sleep/rest/catch up on his own stuff.

He's often in this trap that he ends up feeling peripheral to the family because he is out so much. He says "the kids never come to talk to me about their stuff" - but when I deliver him an oven ready 'please insert sympathetic parenting here' opportunity, he fumbles it & then acts arsy with me for putting pressure on him.

@Nanny0gg - but I didn't have the luxury of lead in either! I sat for an hour in the kitchen with a blubbering DS - and homework was for next day. (And saying 'he should have done it earlier' is missing the point).

I did my level best to chew it down to specific concrete 'ask' by sending DS in with a list of questions - and by trying to mime behind his head to let DH know he was very upset (though he'd stopped crying when I took him up).

In that situation - how else should I have handled it?

Even grumbles around fairness aside - trying to do it all myself would be a shabby second best - because DS very clearly needed some time with his father to feel more comfortable in his identity.

OP

Step the hell back.
You are far far too invested in this one piece of homework and probably contributed to DS stress levels.

Your otherwise great dh had an off night. Wasn’t in the mood. Not great but let. It. Go!!

Classic 'wants his cake and eat it too'.
How much of his own advice has he taken re DD? Is he upping the time spent with her when he is home?
He needs to realise he will cease to be relevant to their lives if he does not put the effort in.

Oh OP, I really do feel for you and agree that no-one is giving you the luxury of a lead-in or time to prepare, but this is exactly how things would have gone in my house too if DH had to do this kind of conversation without warning.

I know it's shitty and unhelpful, but if your DH really is autistic this would have been really hard for him. Even ten minutes to prepare would have helped.

DH is (now) great with DS but I have had to be very clear over the years about what 'great' looks like for emotional stuff. It doesn't come easy to him.

That all said, I'm interested that he seems happy to call out the idea of emotional bonds with DD but to leave the actual work of it to you... which suggests a bit of a pattern.

I wasn't invested @Changeembrace ! He turned up crying and said he can't finish it because he had no idea who to write about. Then turned up again crying harder - and so on.

I'm invested in my kid upset and struggling with growing up - yeah I'll admit to that.

What grates is that I've sucked up years of working 'double shifts' giving DD1 lots of extra time and attention to support her teenage issues - kind of accepting it as my position as the same sex parent and SAHP. Almost being blamed by DH for him being 'excluded'. (That was another thing that was said last night - that I make all the kid decisions anyway - he's not relevant).

But DS struggling with role modelling as he's going through puberty is not something that lands on DH to engage with, however awkwardly or abruptly it happens to arrive... ? I called bullshit.

If your DH is autistic it might be a bit unrealistic to expect him to be much good at dealing with that sort of conversation, especially without any warning.

You mentioned gaming, is your DS interested in that at all? Bonding over an x-box is definitely a thing and can be very effective!

@haba - with DD - I'm kind of royally shafted.

I said to DD once "maybe you want to discuss some of these issues with your Dad". She looked at me like I'd grown two heads and said "I'd like to keep a functional relationship with at least one parent, thanks".

So he has a great relationship with her, gaming together and he gets her stuff she wants and they share a sense of humour. If she acts dysfunctional or anything controversial comes up - he's quick to get pissed off & she winds her neck in (& frankly I step in to buffer). And I'm always the point-person for the scary complicated stuff with her - the one who talks to agencies, decides and enforces boundaries, has the ringfenced 1-1 emotional wellbeing MOT conversations.

It is sounding like you’re at the end of your rope handling the emotional load OP and I feel for you.

If your DH is also on the spectrum would he be willing to try and get an official diagnosis? Or is it a feeling you have that you haven’t/can’t discuss with him?

As for the situation as a one off I’d say you were a bit unreasonable to drop it on him and expect better results, I’d be more focused on your DS and his expression of feeling like an alien in his own skin, homework aside, that must be so upsetting for him and for you to hear.

Have you looked into role models with him? Maybe look into adults on the ASD spectrum so he can see that - whilst his feeling of otherness is understandable, it doesn’t have to be the defining part of his life or his growing up? I might not be right but it could help to see those on the spectrum leading successful lives, from those who manage to excel in their chosen fields, to those who have a more ‘standard’ life.

I think that assuming your DH is also on the spectrum is difficult to deal with, either he is and then it’s a case of exploring it with him or he isn’t but he’s just a bit clueless so without official diagnosis (which I know can take forever) you won’t have a clear idea on how to handle this as you might second guess between ‘he is and so that might explain his reaction/behaviour etc.’ to ‘maybe he isn’t and he’s just not putting the effort in that I am’.

I agree your DH needs to follow his own advice and build a relationship with you DS and I hope you find a method that works for all of you OP (I say this as a woman who is 31 and currently awaiting referral for ASD assessment after my DH pushed for me to consider it - some similar issues to you and your DH but different circumstances and our 2yo DS has been flagged early as potentially being on the spectrum also).

How old is your DS

Might be worth encouraging him to get going on homework before Sunday night when many, especially those back to work the following day, perhaps not in most enthusiastic mood

@greenlobster - DS is not a gamer in a family of gamers. He's a reader when DH is not. And he's kind of 'head in the clouds'. He is often very hard to talk to, because he'll just go off on tangents. But they share a very similar emotional palette - and it's a massive loss for DS if he grows up not realising this. That's why I went in hard yesterday - because it's unusual for DS to be so explicit about what troubles him, and to be overtly genuinely emotional.

In that situation - how else should I have handled it?

Even grumbles around fairness aside - trying to do it all myself would be a shabby second best - because DS very clearly needed some time with his father to feel more comfortable in his identity.

Well - I dunno. I don't think the homework needed to be tied to the "time with his father to feel comfortable in his identity" seeing as your DS had clearly just TOLD you that this was an emotional stumbling block, so forcing the pair of them together was a poor move, and forcing your DS to say that his dad IS a role model to him when perhaps he genuinely isn't probably hasn't helped anyone.

What I'd have done was not link the two tasks, and tried to help DS to pick someone not so close to home (e.g. Nelson Mandela, or a different public figure he's interested in) and then worked on the larger implications another time.

If you really felt that DS needed dad-time, then you should have gone upstairs and spoken privately to DH, not tried to non-verbally communicate with DS in the room.

Your wider point about not wanting to bear the whole emotional brunt is absolutely not invalid, but you probably made things worse for everyone in this particular situation, I'm afraid.

I think most DMs feel like this.
I certainly do!!

My EXDP ( and the children's dad ) has ALWAYS been like this - he still is and yet we decided on 50/50 custody.
My DP is the same ( his DCs ) rely on me for their emotional support too.

IF your DH is Autistic? That may be the reason?
Or, is it just due to the fact you're the SAHP, that he feels its your duty?

I've spoken about this many times with both my EX and DP. They just see me as a Mother - I should be well equipped to deal with all the emotional drama that rears its ugly head when raising DCs.

But, what you're looking for here is support?
I think your DH was caught off-guard and, maybe if he'd had time to prepare then it may have been different?

Don't give up trying though... I'm still trying!

@Changeembrace - yes - hindsight is a wonderful thing. He tried to do it on Friday - we had much the same convo but without the emotional meltdown - and I presumed he'd finished it then - or at least the weekend had given him time to think about it. (Rather than given him time to get super emotional about it). It was only one side of A4 - he did it in 20 minutes once he committed to Nelson Mandela ... it's just a bit sad to Wiki-search up a 'role model' .

"I'll lie Mum, okay? DD1 says its okay to lie sometimes. The truth is a blank sheet of paper, and that would get me a detention. I don't want a detention, Mum".

they share a very similar emotional palette - and it's a massive loss for DS if he grows up not realising this.

My DH and my DC1 are very similar in this way. But this means that actually in the heightened emotional moments I am MUCH better at dealing with DC1 in many ways over issues, because I have years of practice in the best way to approach, negotiate and communicate with a person like that... whereas my DH does not! Being very similar is sometimes not at all a good thing in terms of communication.

But @NoSquirrels - without the homework to galvanise - it would have got kicked into the long grass. Something that everyone kind of agrees should happen, but never quite reaches the top of the 'to do' list.

I told him that a role model is someone who is a little bit ahead of you on a similar path to you. That he didn't need to overthink it - just someone whose example you could refer to when you're unsure - to try to avoid making too many mistakes my being able to think about future happenings before you're living them.

My analogy was that a new recruit in a fast food restaurant should 'model' their role on someone who had been in the role for longer. If they kept a side eye on this person, then they would avoid making mistakes like using the wrong cleaning product on the wrong surface, or having to figure out how to deal with rude customers without a model.

I actually had a good chat with DS telling him stuff about DH childhood - about how similar he was to DS. And that getting to know his Dad's story would be the closest thing he'd ever find to an instruction manual for how to live in the skin he's in.

I think you were unreasonable telling your son who is role model is. You were pushing so hard for it to be his dad, but at this stage in his life it just isn't. So it became emotionally invested when it didn't need to be. My son's role model is David Attenborough. It doesn't mean he loves his dad any less, or that dh is any less of a dad to him. This could all have been resolved on Friday with a quick Google search of people who are linked to a field he's interested in - authors if he's a big reader would have been perfect. The emotional issues with dad could have been resolved in slow time with less drama. I think this was really badly handled by all concerned tbh.

He says "the kids never come to talk to me about their stuff" - have you asked him why he thinks this might be? Does he think they get chance to open up to him, to build a relationship with him, etc. IME, people with ASD are often not very good at recognising emotional cues etc, (I'm including myself in this, BTW) & emotional detachment does necessarily mean they don't care, it's just how they (we) operate. The rest of the world can be pretty confusing & I certainly find it a constant struggle to remember that many other people have different emotional & psychological needs, & communicate completely differently. I appreciate it's probably pretty annoying to have to take on so much of the load, & ideally you wouldn't have to. It just is really easy to forget how other people's minds work when it's outside of your personal sphere of experience.

I do think it's unfair of him to complain that the kids don't open up to him if he's not willing to try though. He must surely understand that his ASD mind works differently to many people's, right?

@10storeylovesong he has a very specific very deeply held life ambition. Think like 'selling cheeseburgers to Martians' kind of thing. Friday he googled - the upshot was the he generally decided that he was entirely divorced from the human race and that he could not relate to any human being ever.

The only thing that he fixed on that was 'normal' was that he wanted to do the same university degree as his Dad. So the two points of connection being having a dubious & sceptical approach to humanity - and choice of academic discipline.

If we're being specific - 'role model' doesn't have to be the person who inspires you or who you admire. It just means someone who can give you a model of what it is like to be a slightly more senior versions of 'you'.

But NoSquirrels - without the homework to galvanise - it would have got kicked into the long grass. Something that everyone kind of agrees should happen, but never quite reaches the top of the 'to do' list.

Well, that's a choice. You could have noted the emotional upset, had a quiet but serious discussion with your DH about it after DS was in bed, agreed to a plan of action of your DH spending more time and energy on stuff with DS, and gone from there.

I just think if my DC told me they didn't see either of us as role models, my first thought would not be to virtually force them to agree that my DH was in fact their role model.

Respect/admiration etc is earned. You can't dictate it.

Sorry, that was meant to say that emotional detachment doesn't necessarily mean they don't care...

^ 'Role model' isn't the same thing as 'hero' .

It models your role.

So someone like you, but a bit more senior. It really doesn't need to be deeper than that.