To insist DH steps up to the plate with kid emotional labour?

[GreenGoffee]

DS last night had an emotional meltdown about his homework. The task was to write about your role model. It set him into a tailspin about how he has no role models and basically feels like an alien in his own skin and is hating the whole prospect of growing up.

I told him he was overthinking it and should write about his Dad - who is a very role-model worthy individual, as well as being basically a scaled up carbon copy on DS physically and emotionally. DS said that that would not be true, and anyway he couldn't write about his Dad because he doesn't actually know enough about him.

I hustled quite hard that his Dad was a very natural choice, and also a good person to connect to if he is feeling wobbly. Printed out a sheet of questions even that I'd googled up to make it easy for him to start.

I took him upstairs where DH was bathing DD (but actually gaming while keeping an ear out on the splashing) - dropped off DS with him, saying that DS needs to chat to him for homework, and making faces behind DS head to flag that DS was in a delicate emotional state. It might be a good point to say that DS is autistic - and probably DH too. Because I twice got "Goffee, your face looks funny, why are you gesturing" - so ended up leaving them to it & taking over DD - since I couldn't say anything more direct without embarrassing DS.

When I closed the door, DH was giving very short answers to all the questions. (Who was the most important person in your life? Dunno. What's been the happiest moment in your life? Dunno). DS reappeared ten minutes later still looking downbeat, saying that he had asked all the questions and still had no essay material. (And seriously - DH is an impressive individual - albeit kind of self-deprecating - and a constant presence in the kids lives).

Apparently I wasn't very kind in telling DH it was a lame effort.

I do know he's been a bit struggly - and we had 'plans' last night, which got derailed by the kids taking more time than usual to settle, but AIBU to have called it out as a weak effort?

For context, our older teen daughter has had a hard time last few years - and DH has been the biggest flag waver for "What she needs is a strong parental bond - just take her out more & talk to her more". I'm the SAHP - so a lot of the emotional about naturally falls to me - which I accept - and I run myself ragged trying to keep an ear to the ground with the kids emotional well-being (esp DD1 - who reserves 100% of the shit and drama for me).

I appreciate DH was bounced into the convo with DS without any warning - but that's how kids emotional collapses go IME - and he was both available and the right parent to take the conversation forward with DS. I wouldn't normally flare up as much as I did - but I'm pissed at the idea that I do the kid emotional labour as a default - regardless of how available or suitable I am for the particular task.

DS got up early this morning and wrote an essay on Nelson Fucking Mandela. Who is an upstanding historical figure - but DS literally knew zero about him before he opened the Wikipedia article. I'm worried for my son if that is genuinely the best fit for the description of someone he feels he can model on as he grows up. It feels like a missed opportunity and I'm still pissed and unrepentant about calling it out sharply.

I couldn't give a flying fuck about the homework - but it really put DS in a tailspin - and it flashed into relief that the family defaults about the kid emotional labour aren't really working for anyone and are very entrenched.

Obviously on MN you only get a snapshot - and I know he's been finding growing up hard in general last few months. DH is out of the house all week, and the normal flow of things isn't necessarily oriented to 1:1 heart-to-heart conversations. The fact that DS was fully focussed on the homework made him unusually receptive to reflecting on why this particular homework was challenging him so much.

It also gave an opening for doing the 'interview format' with a list of questions. If I packed the two of them off to Burger King, they wouldn't talk about below-the-surface stuff. Giving them a list of conversation starters without the fig leaf of 'this is homework' would feel like I was criticising their relationship - which I think would upset them both.

I went for it because it felt like an efficient short sharp intimacy booster. Life is busy - and jumping on the opportunity felt like progress could be made with an engaged 20 minutes, benefitting from the fact that DS was starting out with being open and a bit vulnerable - rather than waiting for the far-side-of-never for a free afternoon, where DS would in any case probably appear with his full cheeky-chappy face on.

Basically - of my two austic men - I expected DH to pick up the baton when DS was receptive - rather than wait for a time to suit DH and assume DS would be prepared to engage.

I guess if it was something that I thought needed a particular approach I would have had a conversation with my DP with my son saying “DS and I have been talking about role models and he’s struggling to think of someone right now - we thought of how you two are alike and DS has some questions to ask that might help him write his essay - can you help?”. Or tbh I probably would have gone to google in the first place.

You can’t expect your DP to read your mind, I’m guessing he was wondering where the hell the questions came from - my DP probably would have thought it was a Facebook quiz and not given it much thought.

oh OP i feel for you, so happy the Sunday Night Homework Extravaganza no longer features in my life.

I guess some of it depends on how old DS is. Next time perhaps on Friday say that you are not available on Sunday for last minute homework? (but the emotional stuff, of course). Frankly I'd have recommended myself as the role model and done it that way (my DC have written about me - unprompted - as role model before though so I'm probably biased)

You probably need to speak to DH about how this makes you feel and how you're going to handle it in future. And if he has no input you are going to be in trouble, but see if it even comes to that.

@CatteStreet - I wasn't actually fussed about who he picked - I mainly just wanted to get on with my own evening - but he wasn't getting anywhere with it - and was getting very upset.

And I do think googling someone you don't know anything about is kind of sad for a role model task.

Statistically - boys without real role models do much worse. It's about having a strong sense of their own identity before they're subjected to the full force of peer and media pressure.

The OP could just as easily have said 'DH I'm tired of trying to sort this role model stuff with DS, you sort it

That would've exactly been the way, not trying to convince the child that their father was their role model, not generating a conversation nothing to do with the actual emotional connections, or why he was upset, but simply trying to get some pretty pointless piece of homework done.

OP, Do you really think the goal for the homework was to have the child find a role model (and your definition is only one of the possible ones, we don't know what the class set up was) It was simply to write a side of A4 about one - unless you already had a goal and a role model to take them there, every student would've written about Mandela, or an athlete, or a performer, none were writing about their dad, or put more than superficial thought into the who - I'm sure the goal of the homework was about writing, not emotional development.

The problem of your son and dad not connecting is not fixed by you inventing a load of questions and forcing them to think how much they have in common, it's about them finding out how much they have in common through shared experiences. You know your DH can do this, he's done it with your daughter, it doesn't happen by you standing behind your son mugging faces at him or telling your son his father is just like him.

Well op you have been well and truely had by your son.
My take on this is a child panicking because they have not done their homework and will get told off at school. To avoid a telling off at home as well he has come up with a sob story about feeling like an alien in his skin. Got you all worked up and worried and bingo he’s getting special treatment not a bollocking.
Boys a genius he will go far with or without a role model

I didn't know what to put for YABU and YANBU.. which is not a criticism of you.. I really feel for your predicament.
Sunday night homeworks (especially RE for some reason) are the WORST.
I think you are trying really really hard to be all things to all people in your household, partly because its become how things work and how you get things done and partly because no one else is stepping up to the plate.
However, and please don't take this the wrong way, perhaps you are trying too hard. I completely understand but perhaps in your efforts to get things done you are chopping things up and presenting it in easy bite pieces and proffering it to the ungratefuls in an attempt to urge them to bite, as you know that nothing will happen if you don't. Not your fault but its exhausting for you to keep doing this.
I think you need to separate the strands.

1. your DS hit the nail on the head when he said he didn't want to get detention (we've had essays where they've sat head in hand trying to write thing about "What is God"... and the Role Model essay and many is the time I've thought why can't they set something more inspiring that actually helps the child write something. Its so goody two shoes which is something I can imagine teens hate. at best it could be seen as an exercise in how to write a page of stuff when you really have no opinion at all on it. . If a child can't see what to write about a person, its best not to force it as they just dig their heels in and turning to wiki to find a few facts was actually not a bad idea. He finds some facts, writes it, hands it in - job done and can move on to the homework that really matters.
2. DH - make your opinion clear to him - His comment about how the DC never come to him to talk is just not good enough on his part. He's the adult. but I dont think you can force these things. You can however insist that he takes DS out somewhere at the weekend for some one on one and hopefully they can take it from their on their own. Its difficult for you, on one hand to step back and let them get on with it- and on the other see it all collapse when they just dont get it. I think in terms of school work you do have to keep a close eye as there's times of year when it can mean their grades going down, but he knows what is expected and its better to let him chose the topics. Best of luck

I went for it because it felt like an efficient short sharp intimacy booster. Life is busy - and jumping on the opportunity felt like progress could be made with an engaged 20 minutes, benefitting from the fact that DS was starting out with being open and a bit vulnerable - rather than waiting for the far-side-of-never for a free afternoon, where DS would in any case probably appear with his full cheeky-chappy face on.

I guess your DH just didn’t understand what you wanted from this. I’m not sure I would have either.
I’m not at all saying he shouldn’t have engaged better - but you just sound so intense about it. I guess I don’t think intimacy is forged in ‘short sharp’ bursts, but by sustained opportunities over the long-term. And your DH should definitely be aiming for that, and trips to Burger King can be part of that without a specific agenda.

Sorry,poor wifi. I meant to type "....trying to write something for the title "What is God"... and the Role Model essay seems like a similar uphill task and I've often thought Why can't they set something more inspiring."

I know I'm going on a bit here, but was it necessary for the DH to understand what the OP wanted? Surely if a child says 'Dad can I ask you some questions for my essay?' a decent dad will say 'Sure, fire away' and just answer them?

But if your DH is autistic as well, he may not be picking up on the clues either. He had no idea what you were on about with your gestures and such like behind DS. You probably need to spell it out to him as well. And however receptive DS happened to be if your DH wasn't prepared and doesn't pick up on the cues it won't work.

I think it is tricky to say that he has to have his DF for a role model ,as they are much too close and he will need someone to look up to outside the family .Thats not to say he doesnt admire and love his Dad ,just that someone whos on TV wherever is better as there isnt the emotional investment there . My friends children love Tim Peake the Astronaut ,part of that is not knowing everything about him For example "I wonder What Tim likes for Breakfast ,will he travel on the tube and so on.Sometimes rgis is good for their imagination as well !

Statistically - boys without real role models do much worse. It's about having a strong sense of their own identity before they're subjected to the full force of peer and media pressure
Really? how insulting to single parents of boys. My son hasn’t seen his so called ‘dad’ since he was 15mths old, he’s grew up to be a kind caring young man, adored by his sisters, more than pulls his weight at home and is studying for a maths degree.
Your son won’t have a strong sense of identity when you force your opinions and ways on him. Get your head out your arse, trying soo hard to be the right/best mum/martyr, your posts are beyond hard work and ridiculous.

@Fairyliz
Very good point 🌟
Homework shouldn’t be left until tantrum time on a Sunday, organising fail by OP there 😉🤣

Well DH could have answered the questions but if he genuinely couldn't think of an answer and tbf some airy fairy questions about what or who was the most important thing in your life is hard to come up with at the drop of a hat then should he lie, how deep does he think it through. If he says the kids are the most important is that in his eyes wrong because without his DW he wouldn't have the kids so does that make her the most important? Was his Mum more important than his Dad growing up or were they the same and why? Its not hard to make something up for some people but given how often on these boards people say that autistic people can't lie and only see in black and white I can quite understand why it is difficult for the DH to respond correctly.

Hi OP - Friendly wave :)

My kid(s) are all adults now, but at one time I had four all in their GCSE years to wrangle at the same time - 1 of my own, two steps and an acquired via friendship, and I remember very well how intense it could all get around HW and school related tasks. Stepping back and trying to be rational just did not feel like an option when the school was essentially making us feel that any failure was down to lack of effort and engagement on the parental front.

The old saying that you can lead a horse to water springs to mind. Rightly or wrongly it seems that when it comes to parenting, women are often expected to be able to wave some kind of emotional magic wand that encompasses research, logistics, empathy and a psychic ability to predict the future including thinking round everyone else's emotional needs and responses and often while being expected not to have any oneself. Men do get excused somewhat, and it often seemed to me that I was expected to parent and educate both the DCs and my ex-DH and find all the strategies to do so because I am a strong and resilient woman who should be able to do it all. (Obviously I really am not, I just seem to fake it well).

You sound as though you are doing the very best you can for all concerned - when it doesn't go to plan it's very disheartening, so i wish you good luck for the future and perhaps at least this will open the doors to some discussion at the very least with your DH.

I think you sound like a great mum OP, and I've never taken the time to comment that on a thread before.

The OP could just as easily have said 'DH I'm tired of trying to sort this role model stuff with DS, you sort it,'

I didn’t do it like this, based on previous times when I have asked DH to help with homework, when he has said that the request was just too open ended. Like - a kid not getting algebra type things - I am not trying to set people up to fail, I just don’t like being the answer to every question. hence the very specific “20 questions “ oven-ready ask.

I really would much rather leave everyone to get on with it - but when it invariably doesn’t, that does boil down to me doing it all, because I am the person most often at the sharp end of dealing with the fallout from emotional wobbles.

Once DS had gone - I explained to DH in more detail what had gone on downstairs - but by then his back was up & DS had gone to bed & it had become ‘a thing’.

DH is very much of the 'this is me' persuasion - and would say that role models are for sheep lacking a sufficiently developed sense of their own identity.

Oh, he's one of those.

Have you ever asked him how someone is supposed to develop a sense of their own identity?

Anyway, I suspect that the main problem here is that OP's daughter's emotional life is Seriously Hard Work (hints at agency involvement?) and she and her father have decided that it's entirely the mother's job to be the antagonist. Poor son is a bit of an afterthought, and OP has just realised this and is stressing about it.

@Jkscott - Your DHs whereabouts say nothing about your sons role models. Different gender parent, uncle, grandpa, scout leader, teacher, big brother - they all work.

It is not a criticism. It is just a fact that seeing and learning about someone ‘senior’s experience that you can relate to makes it much easier to make complicated decisions as you progress. Even reflecting on anti-role models ( e.g. If you have a bad relationship with your parents) can help you work out your identity before it is tested.

I would consider one of my role models (& mentors) to be a woman 10 years older than me who I would now count as a friend, but he was originally the head of the department that I worked in my first job. I thought she did a good job, and watched how she did it, and eventually I just asked her. In my head, it would never cross my mind to list somebody like Beyoncé like my role model, because she and I just don’t face the same challenges.

@merryhouse - yup - nail on the head.

DS is the perennial comedy sidekick, but that hides that he actually has quite a lot going on beneath the surface.

@merryhouse - And that’s also why I flared up on this one.

I know I don’t have the bandwidth to carry them both - and I’m why it keeps turning out ‘by construction’ I do

Aside from the main point, Nelson Mandela is a fine person to write about, being a leader, standing up for beliefs, being imprisoned and yet staying strong, etc etc.

Yeah - but it’s the

“Is Nelson Mandela my role model? What did he actually do? Am I spelling his name right?”
phrasing!

People might argue that DH wasn’t a genuine role model, but surely the bar for somebody to be a role model must be to at least have a basic prior awareness of who the person is!

I understand your point about why should 100% of the emotional stuff fall on you and you tried to compensate for your h's autism by coming up with some conversation starters.

I'd struggle to come up with role models and anecdotes at the drop of a hat.

I suspect that at your son's age, most people won't be picking their parents. There might be extended family members like grandparents but many will be role models in the sense that they did something admirable like Mandela.