Work hard and you can achieve anything?

[mommathatwearspink]

AIBU to think that this isn’t always the case... or is it?

Me and DP (early 30’s) work very hard (like many people) in good jobs. I am still fairly new in my profession but have the chance to make good money as I progress. So far it’s taking longer than anticipated.
I’ve seen so many quotes this week that say ‘work hard and you can achieve anything’ and I just feel that no matter how hard you work, you can’t necessarily achieve everything you want.

Yes all those people in minimum wage jobs working their arses off because they didn't gets opportunities some people get

they are free to go and grab better opportunities, that's the whole point.

they are free to go and grab better opportunities, that's the whole point

Very black and white way of looking at things. Not everyone is going to have the skill sets or abilities to pursue other opportunities. They may unfortunately but suited to their lower paid job that they can work very hard in but sadly not be financially awarded.

The Spirit Level by Pickett and Wilkinson is a good read on this subject. We like to think that if we work hard enough that we can be any thing we want to be. The reality is something different. Most of us will stay within our lanes with little prospect of breaking out.

If you are born in a dysfunctional family with poor parenting, lots of adverse childhood experiences then your chances of becoming the next president of the US is slim. However, if you are born into one of the political dynasties with lots of support and money behind you and those handy contacts - you are more likely to succeed. You see that play out in other sectors: TV, law, banking, medical etc.

they are free to go and grab better opportunities, that's the whole point

It isn't that simple for everyone though. What if they have a family to support and no qualifications. What is they had a awful upbringing and don't have the confidence to go out there and grab 'better opportunities' though what those opportunities might be I have no idea.

Not everyone can just give up work to go back to college if they don't have money and a family to support them and not everyone is academic.

I'd rate it is about 80% luck to 20% hardwork (or 'different luck' as it should probably be called given that tenacity and workaholic tendencies are just as much the product of genetic predisposition as inteligence or an amazing singing voice).

I find it very odd that people are so keen to ascribe their IQ to their genetics but their tenacity to some sort of personal moral superiority.

I know someone who was absolutely convinced he could do anything if he put in enough work...including becoming olympic highjump champion. He was 5 ft 5 ffs. Did he think the average height of olympic finalists being 6 ft 3 was a fluke? Or maybe he thought they didn't train hard?

Either way its all bullshit.

It's a load of rubbish OP.

It's a myth that you

"can be anything you want to be".

Try to join the USAF as a pilot if you're a British citizen.

Try to become an astronaut if you don't have a science degree.

Try to become a pro footballer if you're useless at football.

The people who peddle that myth have caused so much damage.

This was a topic of conversation in our house this evening as it happens. A couple of years ago my sons took part in a schools' STEM competition. Their team won their regional heat, came second at nationals and went to the international finals. My DH has been asked to help another school compete next year and we were talking to our boys about the huge advantages their team had.
They attend an Oustanding school with staff who had the time, abilities and inclination to support them. Almost the entire team had University educated parents, mostly working in STEM fields and who had the ability to further support the team by buying extra equipment, providing space and help for out of school practice and being willing to drive the team around so they could get together at weekends etc. Then, when they progressed, those parents with their own businesses or in senior positions in industry (ie most of us) were able to source sponsorship, and the school's active PTA raised the rest of the funds needed.
The school DH is helping at is very different. The kids are from very different socioeconomic backgrounds. The teachers are struggling with widespread behavioural problems in class and getting their pupils to do very basic stuff is the priority. They don't have enough equipment. There is no spare money. There is little parental engagement and those that are interested don't have the finances or the influence of our team's parents. Nobody will be buying them a duplicate set of kit and setting it up in someone's annexe so the team can practice at weekends.
Our kids worked bloody hard and we were proud of them. They spent a lot of their spare time on the project. They deserved their success. Are they brighter than the other kids? Well, maybe a bit as there is bound to be some genetic influence. But they all grew up in houses full of books and were read to from birth, were bought science and construction toys from an early age, and have parents who played with them and encouraged them to learn. How much more does that give them a headstart? Quite a lot I imagine.
The other kids are working hard too. Maybe not as hard but that is largely to do with not having the opportunities to work. They can try as hard as they like, they are at a major disadvantage that will be nigh on impossible to overcome. Hopefully taking part will inspire at least some of them and they will go on to further success. But is it going to be as easy for them as my kids? Of course not. My children have far more advantages and the same amount of work is likely to take them much further.
It is absolute nonsense to suggest that everyone can majorly improve their lot in life by hard work alone.

I think luck plays a big role in where you end up in life. However it would be a mistake to think that in many situations there are No choices people could make to improve their current situation.

Eg career (within ability range there is usually variation in long term pay prospects), smoking, spending.

A lot focuses on oxbridge, but we should be also highlight vocational choices which can make people’s lives and those of their kids more comfortable (eg plumber, electrician, book-keeping/accountancy, IT). People could also prioritise spending on certain types of stuff for kids to increase the chance they may be able to develop skills in that area.

No, I don't agree you can achieve 'anything'. For one thing, everyone has natural intellectual and physical limitations. Suppose I decided I wanted to win the London Marathon? Yes, if I trained intensively over a long period of time, I might be able to complete the London Marathon, but never in a million years would I be able to win it. Suppose I'd set my sights on becoming a brain surgeon? Wouldn't have happened - I'm simply not clever enough. Suppose I'd wanted a modelling career? I'd have been laughed out of the door even at my physical peak (such as it was).

Add to physical limitations, limitations of education, opportunity, family wealth and connections and you arrive at the truth - we are far from having equal prospects in this world.

Hard work enables progress, without a doubt, but how far you can get will always be limited by the things mentioned above.

Undoubtedly, luck plays a part too - being in the right place at the right time or even being born at the right time. I own my house, for example - if I'd been born 20 years later, I doubt I would have been able to afford to get on the property ladder in my 20s.

I do think for a lot of people fall into careers rather than doing something they love and making a career out of it.

I do think there would be more successful people if when they were young had the opportunity to actually research different careers and choose one they really loved rather than being funnelled into the GCSES, A levels Uni degree route with little idea about what they actually want to do.

Anyone has the capability to work hard but if you are working hard at a job you don’t like you will never reach your heights.

It is also taking opportunities (especially when younger) that pay more but don’t come with the security of a f/t job

I think for a lot of people having a f/t job is the goal but is very limiting especially if you are only doing it for the money and your heart isn’t in it.
Yes you can make friends and have a nice time but then you can get stuck at some level and not progress.

I remember saying on a thread that Dd gets £18 (now £20) per hour for agency work and being told that she wouldn’t get holiday or sickness benefits or maternity pay.

But if she went to work doing what she does in a f/t role for a company she would be on minimum wage or such a low wage and the hours would stop her developing her own business which she is currently earning between £200 - £600 per day

I think her earnings definitely make going without holiday pay and sickness benefit worthwhile

Lilmissknowitall - astronaut and pro-footballer are not fair comparisons. Most people can aspire to get a degree which is the first step to being an astronaut, not everyone has football skills.

However some people face far more challenges throughout their lives to get a degree than others, and hard work isn't the defining factor that gets you one.

Interesting posts.
I have a friend (late 40s) who is very high up in public services (national) and she has worked very hard, exceptionally good people skills, very bright, v senior pay. Her family came from a poor background originally. Made her own connections.
She has always firmly believed that you make your own luck.

But then that's survivor bias, what about the people that worked at the same rate but didn't succeed so much.

Also as said many people erase any advantages that they had as part of the self attribution fallacy.

Absolutely agree malylis
I come from a fairly humble background and went to a desperately bad comprehensive school on grotty council estate but I got As in everything, went to medical school and am now a hospital consultant. Did I work hard? You bet I did. But is that the only reason I succeeded? Of course not!
I still had multiple advantages over other kids. Aside from the fact that I was at University at the time when the goverment still paid tuition fees and gave maintenance grants, which makes a huge difference, I had parents who valued education, taught me to read before I was 3, bought me books etc that I wanted even if it meant going without things themselves and encouraged me to aim high. As a result, at school, the teachers liked me as I was interested, well behaved and committed, so they paid me more attention and were more inclined to help me. Later on I also had a few lucky breaks and found mentors who believed in me, plus of course, I have some natural ability.
But I absolutely believe that there were other kids in my school who were at least as bright as me who didn't have my advantages. It might not be impossible, but it is a damned sight harder to get to university if your parents don't care about your education and spend all their money on booze or drugs. If you are brought up in a household where nobody reads and there are no books you are disadvantaged before you even start school. If the teachers also have no expectations of you and only see you as the lastest in a long line of losers, why should you not believe that too. Yes, some do make it out of such situations, but they are the exception, not the rule.
It really irks me when the "working class made good" talk as if they did it all on their own and with no help. I can almost forgive that attitude from those born into wealth,as they may know no better. But no wo/man is an island and people who have "made it" should realise that they have had help. People can contribute to their own success, for sure, but nobody does it all alone.

@Fieldofgreycorn you said your friend has exceptional people skills and very bright perhaps she was born with those traits which already gave her an advantage.
@MAFIL I loved books as a child even though I was never encouraged by my mum to read. I could lose myself in a good book for hours. When I started school they put me in a special class for reading just because I was from a council estate and a one parent family, they assumed I couldn't read, so I was never encouraged at home or school. I'm not being all poor me but I think your post shows want can happen with the right parents/ education. I love my mum to bits btw!

My Aunt is a foster carer and I see it quite often, very bright kids with lots of confidence (on the outside) but unfortunately because of their generally bad start in life they quite often go on to crime or having babies at a very young age. They don't have that foundation or a family as back up.

You do get the exception but they're very rare just as you can get a bad apple from a good family.