Chris Packham - one child policy.

[Meadowland]

Reasonable or Unreasonable ?

It did not work for China. Amazon Prime Video has a documentary on it.
1.It created the greatest population of abandoned children in the world and was one of the reasons illegal adoption became a booming business.
2.China now has more geriatric citizens then they do any other age group. Which is why China's work force is so stringent.
There's more but those two where the top reasons they stopped it.

The documentary is called 'One Child Nation' it's on Amazon Prime Video

But surely nobody is proposing forced abortion or sterilisation? Simply encouraging families to only have one child. Even in the UK our population is growing all the time.

Exactly. Nothing wrong with financial incentives or tax breaks to encourage lower birthrate. Western governments wont do it though because of the economic benefits of more consumers. The amount of moaning on here when tax credits were limited to 2 children and moaning about child benefit being cut means it will be deeply unpopular as a policy.

Depends if youre a capitalist or an environmentalist.

The problem with ideas like this is that it relies on state control and taking away human rights and control over one’s own body

There is no way to enforce this policy without the government controlling women’s bodies. No thanks

Fcking ridiculous. Look at China - they have this policy and baby girls are left to die. Great! What an excellent solution.
Also- if you are saying to women they should have control of their own reproductive rights then that includes having kids doesn’t it? You cannot say women have a right to control over their own uterus only when it’s something you personally agree with (eg abortion). People either have control over their own lives and bodies or they don’t. Can’t have it both ways you dick.

And some of the responses on this thread show precisely why the planet is fucked and future generations are going to hell in a handcart and will have really shitty lives. But as long as "I'm all right Jack" who cares?

But as long as "I'm all right Jack" who cares?

Ah ok- so you’re happy to hand over rights to your body to the government then? Gotcha. Oh btw, that also means they can force other medical procedures on you even when you don’t want them but that’s ok since you line to peacock how “unselfish” you are so it’s a small price to pay right?

Even in the UK our population is growing all the time

Not due to the birthrate.

Russell Packham isn't demanding Governments introduce China-like policies where you kill babies ffs. But yes, we do ALL need to think about overpopulation and consider whether, for the sake of future children and generations, Governments should be using incentives (tax breaks, other advantages) to encourage people to limit the number of children they are having. To do far, far, more education and support in non-Western countries so that women there actually have, for the first time in many countries, genuine bodily autonomy and access to decent contraception and informed choice.

Then how would you enforce it? Yes we do need to address population issues but a blanket one kid policy doesn’t work. If you stop all financial help after 1 kid then who is going to suffer in large families? Oh yes- the children will. As usual it will be the children suffering for the actions of the adults.

As usual it will be the children suffering for the actions of the adults

Which is precisely what is going to happen if we don't fucking do something. All future children are going to suffer for the failure of adults to take action and to suffer for the actions they did take.

Packham's not talking about enforcement. Where are you getting that from?

Again- how will it be enforced? You said financially so I ask again- what will happen in families who have lots of kids despite their money being stopped after 1. What happens to kids 2 3 4 and 5? What happens to them if there is no money for food? You can’t ignore this concern by just mentioning the planet - this is what will happen to kids if you limit finances in this manner

Russell Do you not also believe in personal responsibility? That you shouldn't be having kids unless you can, you know, afford to feed and clothe them in the first place? Do you think the Government should actually give child benefit for every child you produce, rather than, as now, limited to two? My parents could only just afford to have me. So they didn't have any more children. Seems pretty damned sensible to me regardless of any environmental issues.

I'm not talking about the state providing assistance should, for instance, the parents lose their jobs, but on a general level. I'm not a finance expert, but what some of us are saying is that Governments should at least be seriously talking about this issue and that perhaps one option are some forms of financial incentives or tax breaks to ENCOURAGE people not to have more than one child. Not passing a draconian measure that says "right, after you've had one child we're going to enforce sterilisation on you".

If we don't start looking at this, the consequences are going to be horrendous for future generations. There may not be a perfect solution, I'm afraid, but for fuck's sake let's explore it and try and give our great grandchildren a decent planet to live on.

@ShatnersWig. As I say I am with you all the way on this, but sadly I don't think we can MAKE people care about the impact too many children are having on the planet. They either care, or they don't.
Let's hope though, that by talking about it more, some people may just think twice before having another child.

Meadowland This is why Attenborough says it's the elephant in the room. Too many people put their head in the sand and refuse to actively engage. We're at a crisis point and if we don't do something soon it will be too late. And there is a real danger if we don't do something, one day, Governments may well HAVE to impose far more draconian measures along the Chinese line, or secretly start sterilising children at birth, and I'd rather they didn't.

Do you not also believe in personal responsibility?

Yes, I completely agree with personal responsibility. But the people doing that already aren’t the problem here. It’s the people who wont do it on their own volition isnt it? For those people you cannot force them to give up bodily autonomy and punishing them financially won’t work either as it will simply force more children into poverty.

Its not an easy problem but I think it should be addressed from an early age at school with education about choices and financial responsibility. Bashing people over the head with “you’re selfish fckers who don’t care about the environment” doesn’t work, it just makes people hostile and they stop listening is what I’m
saying. Educating people about their choices will be far more effective than a z list celeb telling people to only have 1 kid.

Educating people about their choices will be far more effective is precisely one of the comments Packham made about non-Western culture.

But that doesn't absolve us in the West from doing fuck all beyond plastic bag taxes.

Agree about plastic. Also why aren’t manufacturers being legally forced to reduce packaging??? Anything you buy these days comes in a ridiculous amount of plastic which is often really hard to get into and you can’t fold it like cardboard so it takes us tons of room in the recycling bin

it relies on state control and taking away human rights and control over one’s own body

But it doesn't. What you do is remove child benefit for more than one child/multiple birth. And paid maternity leave is for one (live) pregnancy only - if you want to have another child, you can take maternity leave again but it will be unpaid. For example. That doesn't affect bodily autonomy at all but is a disincentive to have more than one child. Obviously you wouldn't restrict access to education or healthcare or libraries etc.

I know people will shout that it's ok for the rich to have big families if you do that. Well yes. But is it such a bad thing that only those who can afford large families have them? Everyone gets to have one child.

We are seeing the impact of climate change more and more. I suspect most people will ignore it and at some point draconian measures will have to be introduced anyway. We simply can't keep having the world's population increase, without an increasing impact.
And this is not just about poorer countries. Children born in countries that are rich like Britain have much more of an impact than children born in poorer countries.

It would be great if somehow everyone was given their own personal carbon footprint to use every year. It would force people to make choices.

Berlinbabylon, you are overly optimistic about the make-ability of society

People do not use birth control consistently, people get pregnant without planning to all the time

What would happen to all the hopeless people who keep having unplanned babies, what will happen to these babies?

Just look on MN and all the women here with abusive husbands who keep finding themselves pregnant.

For educated middle class women, children are mostly a conscious choice. For lots of people it “just happens” Just look around.

You are overestimating human intelligence and rationality

Overpopulation will kill the human race, it is inevitable. Humans will only have been a tiny blip on the radar of time

The planet will be fine, new species will emerge.

But humans will make themselves extinct

You can't stop people having children. I'm in favour of policies that gently dissuade (limiting benefits to 2 children for example), or policies that actively reward smaller families.

I'd be interested to see things like an extra tax on very large people carrier type cars, unless registered for use by childminders or by taxi firms. Perhaps a council tax supplement payable by households with more 2 children. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but rather this than obscene prohibitive policies.

I tend to agree with you @TheHumansAreDefinitelyDead. The question is, how pleasant, or otherwise, can we make the lives of last few generations on earth, not to mention the rest of the non human planet? We may be one of them! Reducing population would probably go some way to making things better for all of us.

The economic growth problem is a huge issue. Countries tend to measure their success by economic growth. Fewer babies can mean less growth.

This is why environmental politics is so important now. Limit to growth is a well known concept in environmental politics.