A friend who hears voices is hearing my voice saying things that I would never say. AIBU to gently withdraw from the friendship?

[CarrietheChocolateFiend]

She is being cared for by her sister and is being supported by daily visits from the local mental health crisis team. She has a diagnosis of paranoid schizoaffective and is on a lot of medication.

She understands that nobody else can hear most of the voices she hears. But she nevertheless believes that the nasty and spiteful and sometimes profane things she hears from "Carrie's voice" come genuinely from me - and as a result, she feels violated and abused by what she believes I'm telling her.

I'm determined not to be upset or offended by the anger she's directing towards me (though much of what she is wrongly accusing me of would be considered extremely offensive) and I am her oldest, longest-term friend and I care about her so much, would take any bullet for her &etc.

But I am increasingly reaching the conclusion that my presence in her life is making her illness worse and worse. Or at least, that I can no longer help.

AIBU to withdraw from the friendship for the time being?

Is it only you among her friends/family whose voice she hears telling her these things?

Is she hostile to you?

Definitely not being unreasonable.

I think you have no choice. If she believes you are goading her to do bad things then she could easily lash out at you to get "you" to stop.

I think for now you need to leave this to the professionals.

This must be awful for you. You sound like a good friend, but you must also protect your own mental health if you can.

I would gently withdraw in your situation, especially as you feel your presence may make things worse.

Thank you. I don't know the details of all her voices, but I am aware that she has in the past heard the "voice" of a mutual friend. I don't know how this mutual friend responded.

I'm determined not to be upset or offended by the anger she's directing towards me

Well I'm not being rude but why on earth WOULD you be upset or offended? She's got mental health issues!

YANBU to withdraw though.

Yes, I think it would be best for all involved for you to pull back, that doesn’t mean you can’t resume the friendship at some future point.

Why don’t you speak to her sister and let her know you still care about your friend but you don’t want to make the situation worse so you’re going to give her some space.

A relative was in a similar situation with a flatmate, who unfortunately wasn't receiving the support your friend has. It culminated in a physical attack and the end of their friendship. I would take a step back until your friend is in a better place.

"Well I'm not being rude but why on earth WOULD you be upset or offended? She's got mental health issues!"

Because I am her friend of 20+ years. If I were her CPN I would have the detachment to step back from her words. But I'm not

This is very difficult. My aunt is schizophrenic and over the years (in and out of secure hospitals) has accused almost all family & friends of some really horrific (offensive to criminal) words or actions which are completely delusional. This ends up being very distressing for family/friends, as well as for her.

(In our family's case, delusional accusations by my aunt have caused knock-on problems occasionally - e.g. Police turning up at relative's workplaces after she had called them to report xyz happening - these would be senior/responsible public sector settings. Luckily (?) always very clear fairly quickly that the schizophrenia was the issue but bad situation all round)

I think you are probably best to withdraw from contact with her, at least for the moment. Support her carers if you can, and let them know that you would like to be back in touch with your friend when she is able.

Please step back, both for your sake and your friend’s. Situations like this can escalate unpredictably and the best way to support your friend would be to remove yourself from direct contact.
That doesn’t mean losing contact entirely - if you can offer support to her sister, that would be wonderful, and when this episode is over, I’m sure she will be glad to have her old friendship still intact.
Btw, although you rationally know you shouldn’t be hurt, it’s only natural to feel that hurt. Let yourself feel it, but remind yourself that it is not your friend’s true feelings. Direct the hurt and anger at the illness that is robbing your friend of reality, and use that energy to help support her sister or other layers of support. (Maybe campaign for better MH care in your area).

I am also beginning to fear her summoning the police to my office.

A former friend of mine had a similar condition but not quite as severe. She kept accusing me of saying horrible things I would never say. The last straw was when she told mutual friends I had declared that "disabled people shouldn't be allowed to have children". It was too much for me, I removed myself from her life.

When I was a teen, my elder brother had a GF whose DF was schizophrenic. I used to go to their house regularly. At some point it was gently asked that I didn't come over anymore because her DF had apparently been writing things obsessively about me - things that the voices told him.

It was quite extreme stuff and whilst I understood, it did freak me out quite a bit. Thankfully being 'out of sight' did seem to help and he moved on to other things after a while. Maybe just cool things off and see where the land lies after a while. I'm sure your friend will appreciate you being there again when they have.

This is very difficult.

Years ago, I sent my godmother a Christmas card I had drawn myself. My godmother had had moderate to severe mental health problems since she was early 20s, and had been institutionalised for a few years but was then out and living in supported accommodation. Anyway she phoned me up and really ripped into me about sending her this Christmas card which showed an alien, one of the aliens who was in regular communication with her for this book they were writing together. (It was a mouse at a Christmas party)
I was a bit upset that my card had triggered a psychotic incident but that was all - I couldn't take it personally because it wasn't personal.

And I don't think you should take this remotely personally either because it isn't - I would think the only reason that she hears "your" voice is because it's one she knows well.

I hear your concern about the police but if she does that, her mental illness history would be enough to absolve you of any wrongdoing.

@CarrietheChocolateFiend is it possible for you to have a confidential chat with HR just in case? (There are some in my family who had a kind of preemptive 'note on file', after the first couple of incidents. ) Depends what might be appropriate for your workplace.

I think if she is having an acute episode , then the kindest thing to do is to remove yourself from the situation until reality returns. Keep up to date with how she is doing via her sister if possible and when she is feeling better, make contact again.
It must be awful for you hearing these things and awful for her when she is better knowing you heard them. Stepping back protects you both.

That diagnosis comes with a fundamental distrust that serves to maintain a wall between the sufferer and those around her. When need be (ie at times of greater vulnerability) this defence gets reinforced, for instance by hearing your voice saying things to her. It's very sad. I understand your fear and wish to back away, whatever you decide, you have your life to lead, but i wanted to say that authorities and professionals understand that you aren't saying these things to her.

Can you discuss this with her MH team?

I agree with PP that withdrawing your direct contact would probably be best all round, but help in other ways if you can. I think it might help to cover your back if you are very open with professionals involved about the situation.

I think you have no choice but to withdraw.

Certainly, I'd like to support her sister. Last time this happened, though, the sister believed all of the (albeit less extreme, and in a usual context credible) things my friend told her about me. So I don't know whether the sister would want my support.

Not unreasonable at all. Just walk away as nothing good will come out of it. As I posted earlier, I was kept being accused of leaking stories about this person who had had lapses. Her sister had to console her, saying that the cup could be half full. These people need help; but in a way, they just can't extricate themselves from the loop. Stay away and don't say anything in case it is misinterpreted. Bad news if she said she could hear your voice!

You shouldn't do anything like that without getting advice.

The health professionals working with her will not be able to discuss her with you, but it might be worth contacting them anyway, to ask if walking away would be helpful is damaging to her.

Also Google for organisations that help those affected by another's mental health. They generally have phone helplines, so can both advise and support you.

I just don't think you should make a decision based on what unqualified mumsnetters think.

I think it would be completely normal to be upset and, yes, offended. It’s very upsetting to know that that person thinks you have done something awful. Yes they think that in their delusion but that doesn’t make any difference to the feelings in this situation.

Asking someone not to be upset is asking them to have superhuman levels of disconnect which, ironically, mentally well people do not have.

And after upset, hurt would be the next feeling, quite naturally. You feel that the reality of your friendship should be enough to puncture these delusions but it’s not because the illness is more powerful. It’s ok to feel hurt also. The fact that you ‘know’ your friend doesn’t intend to hurt you and can rationalise some of this away doesn’t, in fact, make it any easier. What it means is that you are having to do a lot of your work on behalf of your friend to manage the impact this has on you.

I would feel exactly the same. Someone else being mentally ill doesn’t magically turn you into a superhuman and you need to look after yourself first.