To be permanently skint, despite being on a good salary?

[cherriesandapplesandberries]

On paper, we have a good combined income of around £85,000, although it varies slightly and can even go up to around 90 on a good year.

But we seem to be permanently skint, and I don’t mean not much money, I mean absolutely nothing in the bank accounts, scrabbling round for loose change, stressing about how we will get to work, skint. This isn’t a begging thread by the way, I know sometimes people post on MN wanting others to offer them money and I don’t, I’m just trying to explain how it is.

We do have debts, loans and credit cards plus obviously the mortgage, childcare fees, cars which cost then obviously the needs of a growing family.

I know back when I was a young ‘un I’d have fallen about laughing at the idea my current salary isn’t enough to live on, but I just seem to be struggling all of the time!

Itll be a mixture of things, but your biggest problem is childcare.
If you are left with £2500 a month after childcare then you will be fairly hard up whatever you do.

Oh right wow if mortgage is 1300 that is rather hefty IMO

@SympatheticSwan Homestly you don't know what you are talking about. You have to be on a very low income to get subsidised housing i.e. housing benefit

Not necessarily, if you're in an expensive area. It's based on local housing costs as well as income and family size, so not really possible to generalise.

There are loads of poster claiming that the OP can’t be on about 2500 take home pay - I’m a teacher as well, and after pension and student loans my 43k ends up at about 2250 a month. 50k = higher student loan and pension contributions so is roughly right. despite some idiot poster being convinced that the OP was actually on 3,900 and kept shrieking like a demented harpy

Problem is @cherriesandapplesandberries, lots of posters aren’t on that and will beat you mercilessly because you have the audacity to earn 85k and to still struggle. It’s called the squeezed middle for a reason 🙄

Nope it wasn’t new. I’ve never bought a new car in my life, but even if I had, I don’t have a time machine

I’m not going on about the debt, it was for a good reason and I don’t regret it.

Thanks piny

This thread is descending into ridiculousness now

Who on earth puts aside significant amounts of savings to deal with medical emergencies not covered by NHS.

I suspect the OP or her DH suffered some sort of mental health crisis and one of them was unable to work, hence taking on a level of debt. No one saves money for that scenario.

And OP if that is the scenario (and no need to respond to my comment at all) you have my sympathy. We got into debt after my DC was stillborn and I was incapable of working. It was tough but I’m a long way out the other side and things are much easier on all fronts now.

Sorry if I missed this earlier but I'm not sure how you had "medical costs". We have this lovely thing called the NHS? It's free and covers necessary medical treatment...

WHere has the £1300 pm mortgage payment come from, apart from out of thin air?

If the OP is a teacher on £50k that suggests that she's well into her career, ie late 30s/early 40s rather than a decade younger, indicating that they could have bought quite a few years ago and hence could have a much smaller mortgage.

A couple of things strike me;

• Op says budgeting doesn't help - but noting down expenditure is just the first step. It allows you to see where you spend. It is the next step which makes the difference.

When expenditure is greater than income, even when income is high, quite simply the expenditure needs to be cut. I hope that sounds sensible and rational to Op. It's no good saying all those expenditures MUST happen and cannot be avoided.....that just isn't true. There are always choices to be made and yes, some of them will be unpalatable and unappealing, but in order to be in balance that's what's needed.

So I would say a short term and a medium term plan are needed. Both of these would benefit from having a debt advisor helping. Refusing to see one is refusing to fully engage with the issues and refusing to really be willing to tackle the issue. Op can choose to continue for another 5 years in the situation of scraping around for loose coins as she is now is she chooses to be, or she can take action.

In the short term, expenditure has to reduce. Where can it reduce? - - There will be scope for cutting on some children's activities (taking an attitude of these exact activities are essential and must continue won't help.....change is needed, so change must happen. No one is saying reduce to zero but find ways to make savings - cheaper activities, not none)
There is scope for cutting pension contributions. Again, not to zero and not forever, but in the short term. It this doesn't mean pulling out of the pension. It is about freeing up some money in the short term. NthT is all.

• there will be some scope for savings in the shopping/utilities

There may be scope for reducing debt. A debt advisor can help those in debt make offers to those they owe money to, in a way which reduces total debt.....firms would often rather have certainty of some payment now rather than the risk of not getting money in future. Debt advisors help people manage debt in terms of their overall budget and often reduce the debt. They help people get back onto a firm footing who are both low and high income categories. They are trained to do it and they are free - look for community debt advice in your area. It is non judgemental and I would eat my hat if they couldn't do anything for you. But you have to be willing to go and chat.

In the end, the question is, how much do you want to move away from living as you are and feeling like you do? You're getting by....just. You could ignore the advice and carry on and be in the same position in 5 years. That's your choice. Or you can decide you will do something and make changes even if they are difficult and you'd rather not. You can see them as essential and not options. You can see a debt advisor even though you don't want to and you can then find the peace that so many others have found of knowing things are improving.

An earlier poster said, the best gift you can give your children is financial security and being debt free. When you are stressed about money, they will know, even if you don't say it. It is better for them to have less activities and luxuries and have parents who are debt free sooner than to have a few more material possessions.

So stop thinking the situation is fixed and unchangeable. It often takes an outsider to point out the things that actually can change so you should make use of what is out there.

I’m not going on about the debt, it was for a good reason and I don’t regret it.

In that case it won’t be long until the loans are repaid . I hope things work out well in the next year or so . I’d recommend saving as much as you can moving forward .

Sadly OP, I'm sympathetic but really, 85k or so joint income just isn't that high any more, if you live in a reasonably pricey part of the country and have childcare and debt to shift.

Just countdown till some of the debt is shifted and remember once the kids are on school your financial position will have improved immeasurably.

I understand as am in a similar position.

I have a spreadsheet with everything budgeted (including money for nights out). The mortgage and travel costs to work are so high.

Despite what many have said it's not just you.

Purpletigers. The OP went on three holidays over three years and they were all European. And whether you like it or not, for most people, travel is an educator . It widens people’s perspectives, teaching and making them more aware and accepting of different cultures. Experiencing a country is always more valuable than merely reading about a country. It’s a discussion for another thread. In the meantime pls don’t describe it as you did.

Never in my life have I heard travel being described as such. Travel broadens the mind, educates, and makes the world a more harmonious place. Only those who have never travelled would describe it as the above.

For those of us fortunate enough to be the ones doing the travelling I agree .
Unfortunately you haven’t give any thought to those who live in the areas we visit , no thought to the stress on local infrastructure, the loss of privacy , the higher prices for the locals ( think holiday house for starters), the government priorities which may alter to suit the tourists . It’s not as simple as you say .

Unfortunately you haven’t give any thought to those who live in the areas we visit

Where in Europe doesn’t like tourism?

OP a lot of people have taken the time to post their advice / wisdom on this thread. How do you feel about what you've read?

This thread has gone absolutely batshit

The NHS doesn’t cover everything, and the things it does cover aren’t always exhaustive.

I haven’t travelled anywhere on a plane or boat since the start of last decade so WHY I’m being lectured on this, I don’t know!

I think a lot of it is completely batshit lola if you want my honest response!

Sadly OP, I'm sympathetic but really, 85k or so joint income just isn't that high any more I disagree it still puts you in the top 25% of household incomes in the UK so a little head wobble for some needed I think.

I don’t need to go to moneysaving to know that clearing debts as soon as possible is a good idea, but you can’t get blood from a stone

The invaluable thing about MSE is it tells you how to prioritise clearing debts, and how to manage what you have without adding more. But it looks like quite a few posters just want to say they're skint and not take responsibility for what they spend (previously on debts or currently on outgoings). If you don't take control now, the problem just builds.

Took me three years to get out of what I thought was an impossible, miserable life and I don't believe I would have managed without MSE. But wow - the feeling of paying off that last debt and being completely debt free is wonderful. Having that hard earned cash available to support my children, treat my wider family and spend on luxuries that make life easier is great.

My roof was leaking yesterday. I had a roofer around today and it will cost £3k to fix. Ten years ago, that would have bankrupted me and probably made my precarious mental health (at the time) much worse. Seriously. My credit was at its hilt and every spare penny was taken. Please don't live under that kind of stress. Put a plan in place, get rid of debt, and build up an emergency fund. Control your money, don't let it control you.

@PattiPrice Sun 12-Jan-20 16:05:00,

I'd give up on @Purpletigers if I were you, they are being deliberately obtuse throughout this thread, these types are best ignored....

I’m not going on about the debt, it was for a good reason and I don’t regret it.

See this makes me think it wasn’t medical costs, or at least not mainly for that.

No one would say ‘they don’t regret’ that would they? You might not begrudge it but not regretting it is what you’d say about something frivolous

At the end of the day, if you don’t want to disclose your household costs and debt levels, people are going to fill in the gaps themselves.

£85k is a lot but it’s easy to fritter away if you’ve overspent in the past so are servicing high levels of debt, you’re not sure if your income is because no correctly taxed etc and you no real idea where the rest is going

@BarbaraofSeville I agree with you the OPs joint net income seems to be approx £1000 a month less than an £85K - £90k gross income would give. Even with 10% pension and student loan.

Voddie the UK is hugely disparate. In my market town in the south east, a small flat costs half a million pounds. £85k household income here could make you among the poorest in town.

Money is always relative..If OP lives somewhere expensive and has a social circle of high earning professionals she will feel poor.