To be permanently skint, despite being on a good salary?

[cherriesandapplesandberries]

On paper, we have a good combined income of around £85,000, although it varies slightly and can even go up to around 90 on a good year.

But we seem to be permanently skint, and I don’t mean not much money, I mean absolutely nothing in the bank accounts, scrabbling round for loose change, stressing about how we will get to work, skint. This isn’t a begging thread by the way, I know sometimes people post on MN wanting others to offer them money and I don’t, I’m just trying to explain how it is.

We do have debts, loans and credit cards plus obviously the mortgage, childcare fees, cars which cost then obviously the needs of a growing family.

I know back when I was a young ‘un I’d have fallen about laughing at the idea my current salary isn’t enough to live on, but I just seem to be struggling all of the time!

I haven’t seen any excellent suggestions at all on this thread

There plenty of good suggestions but none the OP wants to take on board and that’s fine: you get two choices with money: either you live within your means or you don’t.

And I have some sympathy for the OP because as I said previously until recently I’ve always lived to the very limit of my means. Despite my means being considerable I’ve wanted more - it’s not always a healthy way to live.

@cherriesandapplesandberries please check out the MSE forums. I have also used Dave Ramsey on YouTube for motivation. Lots of middle class people struggle month to month due to high mortgage and childcare costs.

@OhTheRoses hit the nail on the head

We used to fritter money away until DH constructed a budget, and now we have savings! We hardly ever spend money on lunch, coffee or eat out, shop around for utilities, and make do with an old car and tv. we also don't spend much on clothes, personal upkeep etc, and if DD needs teen trendy clothes then she buys them from her birthday money. One holiday a year, normally a city break with AirBNB accomodation.
We're hardly flush, but have a nice standard of living.
Just write down everything you spend over a fortnight, and then prioritise.

What is a middle class salary @OhTheRoses 80k? this is just based on labours tax proposals

Tutoring could help , wedding nanny for Saturday weddings? Your husband could get a weekend job . Babysitter and take your marking with you?
Buy and sell things online ? Those are the options I’d consider.
I imagine you’ve made the same mistake a lot of people do , they start earning a reasonably good salary and the holidays and cars and weekends away feel like a reward if not a right .
I have known several 20 somethings driving brand new cars within months of starting working . Then they’re off travelling the world because you know “ we must do this when we have money and before we have a family “ . What they don’t realise is that they really should be living below their means when they can, then when/ if they have the childcare and associated costs , they have some wiggle room .

I can’t offer you any advice other than to learn from your mistakes and live below your means moving forward . Eg the first year you start to save on childcare - Save it all for at least a year before you have a holiday .
To the poster who’s paying for an expensive party when they cannot afford it , you are an eejit !

it’s not really your business is it?

Didn't you invite people to make it their business by starting this thread... and WHY did you put it in AIBU which is fractious at best of times?

You could have been transparent by listing income & outgoings in a thread under topic = MoneyMatters asking MNers "Where can I cut down?"... but no, you chose AIBU, including enabling the vote option. Are we supposed to bless you for being skint? What did you hope to gain by starting this thread?

I'm guessing ~£1500-£2k mortgage /month. You COULD ask about ways to reduce the mortgage payment or make it into a better deal. Oh, but oops, that's not my business.

When people say they are skint I always want to see their list of visited countries . People really do spend a lot of money on completely unnecessary crap .

I get this as we were in the same situation recently then I discovered we spent a ridiculous amount of money on food. We are now saving £425 per month on food costs. We are a family of 4......

Karen I didn't say they make it a level playing field. But benefits go some way to reducing the net income disparity between low income earners and middle income earners. Of course they do. It's not hard maths.

We are in a similar boat OP.
Permanently broke despite having a small mortgage of 1200 per month. Will bills etc, we literally don't have money for the fourth week of the month and savings are non existent. We go on a cheap camping holiday so not much money spent there either. One very old car. Everytime we (almost) get on top of it, we get a large bill or something needs to be fixed. We don't pay private school fees although we do have private health ins. We really want to move house but can't make the figures work.
I'm so tired of it.

I can see how it happens OP, for all the reasons you and PP have identified. If you want to improve things (fine if you don't, you may just want to vent) the two things I'd do in your shoes are an audit of outgoings to see what, if anything, can be cut down, and then a plan to take on a bit of tutoring (maybe during the school holidays, if your kids are in childcare still?).

We've got a high income - as a student if you'd told me what I'd be living on now I'd have imagined a Scrooge McDuck diving through coins in my mansion level of wealth - but I still sometimes get to the end of the month and wonder where it's gone. And I'm as Aldi shopping/packed lunch taking/ancient car driving as they come.

OP is prob not revealing her mortgage as it will massively illustrate the choices they have made. OP basically does not want her choices critiqued on here, so she probably knows many of them were not sensible/frugal. Childcare costs don't to vary much, the cheapest option in a region often isn't much less than average. Mortgage however.....A big payment will indicate:

1. an expensive property. OP could create some budget slack by moving to a cheaper one
2. OP has overstretched on borrowing (If mortgage is a high proportion of income).

If the mortgage and all bills come out of her DHs £1700 salary the mortgage can’t be that high - maybe £1,200 ish. Which is a lot of money but wouldn’t allow you to rent much if you’re in the south

I’m still thinking they are actually really low instead

Sorry I haven't read all 500+ messages of the thread, but one thing jumped out at me from your OP.

We do have debts, loans and credit cards
That's where the money is going. Not on lifestyle but on debts. They eat your money alive. Get out of debt and create a good budgeting system that allows for luxuries that make you feel life is worthwhile (it's possible.)

To get out of debt you need at least six months of hard graft. Buy no clothes, cosmetics, magazines, coffees, drinks out etc during this time. Stick to basic groceries. meal plan. Just for this period of time. But do include a celebration or treat once a week that is within a tiny budget (be inventive) so you get rewarded for your hard work. Try and consolidate all debts into one place and pay off massive chunks as fast as you can to reduce the outrageous APR. Get rid of all store cards and have only one credit card used only for bug purchases. Everything else's paid on debit or by cash. If you sell things, have the money transferred immediately into your debt account. If you are given birthday money, by something with 30% of it and put 70% into the debt fund.

If you're not clear in six months, keep going. As soon as you are debt free you feel really rich. Your money will belong to you not your creditors. It's a wonderful, powerful feeling. If you want something after you're debt free, save up for it, then buy it. Don't use credit.

To make sure you don't feel really bleak during this time, make a good list of lovely things you can do for free or less than a fiver, and do some every week. Saturday morning kids cinema, walks in the park and country, picnics etc, free events in your local area. Look out for comedy try out nights, free gigs and exhibitions in your area. Eat at home instead of out. It's short term. Once the debts are paid off, your income will be enough to afford a lot of luxuries.

Yes I second Dave Ramsey. Also look at YNAB.

You need to take control of your finances rather than them taking control of you.

I think the issue is the debt. Without that, OP, you’d be much better off. I can understand why you’re in this position and I totally get your frustration. Having said that, between you, you and your husband bring in a good income. I would try to focus on getting through the childcare years (expensive I know!) and paying the debt. Once those two things are past you will be laughing. In the meantime I guess you just get through day to day.

Designer clothes

YNAB does cost money but it will SAVE you money if you use it and budget!

It's an excellent budgeting tool (and I have tried loads!) and if it saves you money it's worth the @£5 pcm cost.

If you want (and you will stick to it) you can also budget on a spreadsheet or in a notebook, you don't HAVE to pay anything but I expect you are very busy and need to balance time with cost. Doing things for free often comes with a time cost.

Designer clothes

What do you spend your money on ?
Can you list the countries you’ve visited along with the cars you’ve owned ?

So is childcare all your DH’s salary and £1500 of your own?

'Can you list the countries you’ve visited along with the cars you’ve owned ?'

FFS that's a little obsessive

What on Earth

You don't do YNAB or any budgeting with just your income and expenses. You need to do it for the household.

As others have said if you don't have enough money for essentials after paying child care and debt then you need you seek debt advice and look at your debt options.

*So my income is £2500 after tax.

1500 goes on childcare fees
500 towards loans
Leaving 500 for credit cards, food, petrol, mobile phone.*

What does your partner pay for besides mortgage and household bills?

Is he left with more disposable income than you?

Were the loans and credit card debt built up from everyday living costs?

If so, it's not fair for you to be covering all the childcare costs and paying for the family's food, and it's not fair for you to be paying off debt that accrued because your net pay isn't enough to cover the things you've been paying for. He needs to contribute more to the family pot.

You’d have to move house and buy somewhere smaller. Once kids at school that will be the childcare cost finished.