To stop my children going to their dad's?

[Farontothemaddingcrowd]

Dd 12 has been refusing to go to her dad's for contact every other weekend but being very evasive about why, just saying that she doesn't like it there. We live in a lovely village and home and her dad's house is in a rundown area and the house is untidy and chaotic - so I assumed it was this. I have never been allowed in to the house so didn't know the true condition.

My other dd, 14, has always wanted to see her dad, but recently, along with ds, 10 - has been reluctant to go, saying she missed her friends in the village we live in.

Yesterday she told my dp why she doesn't want to go. Dd and ds have to 'play out' till 11pm at night. The house is only 3 bedrooms and their dad's girlfriend has 3 children so it is crowded anyway, but they have 6 cats who wee and poo in the house. There is no bin and rubbish is thrown either in bags or on the floor. There are no structured mealtimes. Their dad's girlfriend smokes weed in the house in front of the children and leaves bags of it lying around. Dd was scared to tell me about this and so she confided in my DP, but agreed he could tell me.

I am horrified. Obviously the fortnightly contact at weekends will have to stop immediately. Dd still wants to see her dad so I will need to facilitate that somehow. My other dd and ds aren't bothered about seeing him, but I will try to keep contact for their sake. There is no court ordered contact, so I'm just going to message exh and inform him that there will be no overnight contact. He can take me to court if he wants. I don't think he would tbh.

I was thinking of going to see a solicitor for advice too. One of the things I'm worried about would be what would happen if I died unexpectedly. DP wants to keep my dc here in their lovely clean home and at their current schools, but obviously he has not got parental responsibility and I'm terrified they could end up living in that dirty, disgusting environment with their dad.

One thing making this tricky is that dd and ds don't want me to tell their dad what I've told them, so I am not sure what to say when he asks why I'm stopping overnight contact.

I know I'm not being unreasonable- I suppose I'm just wondering how I go about this in terms of next steps.

Definitely get some legal advice about the best way to safeguard your children in your will and stopping contact with your ex

You absolutely cannot send your children. If something was to happen your children whilst there it will be you that is held accountable. If this is how they are living a neighbour could well ring social services. Could you say a 3rd party has informed you of the lifestyle and you have concerns...or just ring social services yourself...there are other children involved here

OP, are you sure that your girls are being truthful, and have not just spun a tale to avoid going there? Especially as they have asked you not to tell him the reason?
At their age, most teens would rather be spending time with their friends than their parent, even the most fantastic parents!
If you are certain there's some truth in what they are saying, then you might want to report your ex to SS. After all, there are 3 other children living in what sounds like squalor. If he takes you to court, they will need proof that what your girls are saying is true, and an unannounced visit by SS may well provide this proof.
I think you need to be honest with your girls. As there are other children in the house, you can't keep what they have told you a secret. This could be a massive safeguarding issue.

I would not be held accountable if a neighbour was to ring social services, that's not correct. I will not be sending them, I've been very clear on that.

YANBU to let let your children stay there. Discuss with your children whether they'd like to see their father elsewhere and find out what they'd like. Just tell their father that the conditions of his home aren't suitable for them but don't refuse to let him see them somewhere clean and free of drugs and where they aren't neglected and left out until 11pm.

Are his girlfriend's children living there? If so, I think you should be worried about them. I think I'd be calling SS to explain what your children have said.

.*not let

You need to raise this as a concern for the girlfriends children too

I'm as certain as I can be that they are being truthful. Their clothes small of cat wee when they come back so that backs up the cat element of the story. They were both crying when they told dp.

Girlfriend's children are living there. One of the kids has asthma. Once I've seen a solicitor I will look at contacting children's services regarding those children. I fear the threshold for intervention is very low, however.

I think what @Louise91417 may have meant is that now you know what's going on, if you still sent them there SS would have concerns.

I would contact social services in the hope it would help them turn things around. In the meantime I would stop contact in that home.

Please don't wait until after you've seen a solicitor. You can ring SS anonymously today. Although the remaining children aren't your responsibility, not doing anything about it immediately isn't nice, in fact it's quite awful. Someone's got to help them!

With regards to your Will, you can have a guardianship entered into your Will. It is then upto the other parent to challenge your decision and the guardianship. I have this in my Will.

Again, social services would not be removing my dc from a lovely clean home because I sent them to their dad's, even if they had told me this. They would intervene to stop contact with the children's dad, I'm sure - but there are no concerns about the standard of care I offer. I'm not going to continue overnight contact, however!

The guardianship in my will would be what I would need, thank you.

I'm not discussing the other children - I'm aware of what needs to be done with regards to children's services. Sadly I suspect the bar for intervention is very low

I'm looking for advice on how to proceed with my own dc.

You don't need to give a reason. If pressed say the older dcs are very busy with school work and the younger ones don't want to go without their siblings. Maybe allude to the house not being peaceful enough to revise/study.

Moving forwards if he were to start court proceedings then the dcs are old enough to have their views taken into consideration.

You could suggest, in the interest of maintaining a relationship with their father that they go out for lunch or somewhere like the cinema. But make sure you are certain they will be returned.

I would definetly ring SS about the other dcs. It doesn't sound as though there is enough for them to intervene from what you have said but you don't know of there are other things going off in the background.

My dd stopped seeing her father a few years ago at age 12 for similar reasons. He hasn't done anything about it. I suspect beyond a bit of chuntering your ex wont either and you can offer some daytime contact to keep the peace if the dcs want that.

Dd 12 hasn't seen her dad for months and he's done nothing about that, so I don't think he would do anything about the other two not going either. He gambles and doesn't have the money or the inclination to take me to court and I don't think he would get anywhere if he did. He sometimes takes the kids to his mums at the weekend, so I would be ok with him doing that for a couple of hours.

No, you would not be held accountable if a neighbour rings social services. That’s just scaremongering. But I agree you should contact SS.

I did not have concerns about the care that my children would receive from their father, however - but, like you I was concerned what would happen if I died. If I had died I knew my children (then teenagers) would not wish to change schools as their lives would already be in enough upheaval. I appointed a guardian in my will - and I suggest that you could appoint your DP similarly. The solicitor did not suggest that this was inappropriate. I suspect at the ages your children are, their views would be taken into account if this unfortunate event occurred.

My youngest is now 19, so fortunately this possibility has now passed.

It would make something of a farce of the family court system if one parent was held accountable for the other parent.

I will book an appointment with a solicitor. I need to make a will anyway, so that will be a good option.

I would stop contact at their Dads full stop. If your DC are being forced to stay out till 11pm, especially in winter, they are not having suitable or quality contact with their Dad.

I'm just worried as dd, 14 is saying she still wants to see her dad. Despite his failings she loves him.

I'm not allowing them to stay there and so they won't be outside until 11 PM but he does attend parents' evenings and school plays and I would like him to still have a relationship with them for their sake. It is a tricky one though, because I don't want them to go to that house at all. I would like him to see them outside of that house only.

I have a guardianship in my will too. For my son as Dp isn't a bad dad but won't cope financially and practically. I have a trust which activates if I die n ds is a minor and ds aunts are executors

What i am saying is based on legal advice i was given when i had concerns about ds going to exp home...if you continue to send your child to a house were you have been made aware of "concerns" and something was to happen your children you will be investigated...you will be seen as unfit to send them into that enviroment..

This whole thread is about me not sending them there, so I don't think that's relevant. I also don't think the children are physically at risk - more neglected. Social services have too much to do, they have a low bar and they would not have cause to investigate a loving parent who is taking advice to protect her children.