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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To stop my children going to their dad's?

54 replies

Farontothemaddingcrowd · 11/01/2020 09:06

Dd 12 has been refusing to go to her dad's for contact every other weekend but being very evasive about why, just saying that she doesn't like it there. We live in a lovely village and home and her dad's house is in a rundown area and the house is untidy and chaotic - so I assumed it was this. I have never been allowed in to the house so didn't know the true condition.

My other dd, 14, has always wanted to see her dad, but recently, along with ds, 10 - has been reluctant to go, saying she missed her friends in the village we live in.

Yesterday she told my dp why she doesn't want to go. Dd and ds have to 'play out' till 11pm at night. The house is only 3 bedrooms and their dad's girlfriend has 3 children so it is crowded anyway, but they have 6 cats who wee and poo in the house. There is no bin and rubbish is thrown either in bags or on the floor. There are no structured mealtimes. Their dad's girlfriend smokes weed in the house in front of the children and leaves bags of it lying around. Dd was scared to tell me about this and so she confided in my DP, but agreed he could tell me.

I am horrified. Obviously the fortnightly contact at weekends will have to stop immediately. Dd still wants to see her dad so I will need to facilitate that somehow. My other dd and ds aren't bothered about seeing him, but I will try to keep contact for their sake. There is no court ordered contact, so I'm just going to message exh and inform him that there will be no overnight contact. He can take me to court if he wants. I don't think he would tbh.

I was thinking of going to see a solicitor for advice too. One of the things I'm worried about would be what would happen if I died unexpectedly. DP wants to keep my dc here in their lovely clean home and at their current schools, but obviously he has not got parental responsibility and I'm terrified they could end up living in that dirty, disgusting environment with their dad.

One thing making this tricky is that dd and ds don't want me to tell their dad what I've told them, so I am not sure what to say when he asks why I'm stopping overnight contact.

I know I'm not being unreasonable- I suppose I'm just wondering how I go about this in terms of next steps.

OP posts:
ohwheniknow · 11/01/2020 10:04

Neglect is just as damaging as physical abuse.

But yes, sadly due to underfunding social services tend to only get involved in very high risk circumstances. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be made aware. It could be adding a piece to a bigger picture they're aware of and you're not.

As for continuing contact, would a contact centre be an option?

Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 11/01/2020 10:10

I'm not minimising neglect, but he's not a physical danger to them and I don't believe they would come to harm by having contact with him outside of the house.

I don't think a contact centre would be necessary as long as he sees them at his mum's or takes them out. At their ages, particularly, they can tell me where they've been and they have mobile phones to ring me if they need me.

OP posts:
ElsieMc · 11/01/2020 10:13

I am a gs carer with court ordered contact with the eldest child's dad. He was neglectful, took drugs and was regularly in court for violence. In my case I was damned if I did and damned if I didnt.

Not sending him meant I was in breach of court ordered contact and I was taken back to court. If I sent him and he was hurt, then I was wrong for sending him.

In reality, he ended up at his other grandparents which was really who the contact was about which was better for him for safety and structure. However, he absolutely loathed going there. You either love someone or you don't and it cannot be forced.

Once he was sixteen, he couldnt wait to get away telling me he had only not refused point blank because it would end up with more court hearings. He now refuses to see his other grandparents and blames them for damaging his childhood. I take the view they had plenty of time to show they were loving and caring and they weren't.

I think you are right to take advice on this op. Be prepared for the threat of court but of course this costs money. It is terrible that the children have to play out until 11 pm, they must be at risk from what you have described. Having said that, social services do not count chaotic as abusive in any way.

It may well be that it comes as a bit of a relief to your ex and gives him an out. However you still have the problem of the eldest child and keeping her safe - as you say, she loves her dad faults and all. Perhaps she could visit during the say if she wishes perhaps more regularly. He may not agree to this but only you can gauge his reaction.

You do not mention child support and it may be that eow overnight contact gives him a reduction in payments so this may be another issue to deal with.

You are absolutely right not to send them again and despite my own negative outcome I would still take this road again.

Snowman123 · 11/01/2020 10:17

He sounds awful.

However, I think it is important for the children to keep some kind of contact, and thus relationship with their dad.

I think the children know this already, but maybe reinforce to them that the conditions he keeps the house in, and the behaviours they witness are totally unacceptable. Maybe ask the children's suggestions on how they would like to maintain contact with their dad without actually having to spend weekends in what sounds like an apparent hell hole.

Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 11/01/2020 10:20

Thank you, that's helpful advice. He pays maintenance but I haven't pursued official channels and I won't be seeking an increase in payments. He probably pays less than he needs to, but I don't particularly need the money and my priority is the children. I did think he may stop payments in retaliation for me stopping overnight contact, but then I will go through official channels and have it taken from his salary. Otherwise I won't rock the boat.

The eldest dd is my main concern really, as I need to ensure she has contact with the dad she loves, but in a way that doesn't involve chaos and neglect.

OP posts:
Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 11/01/2020 10:21

The dc have said they want to see dad in the daytime but not overnight.

OP posts:
Shelby2010 · 11/01/2020 10:23

Do you have any contact with exMIL? Would you be able to speak to her & ask her if the kids could have contact at her house? Is she aware of conditions at their fathers house?

Snowman123 · 11/01/2020 10:24

I think daytime contact is the perfect solution. I would possibly even encourage the children to tell him the things that they do not like about overnight contact. So he can see that it is the children's decision, and possibly even up his game and sort out the chaos.

Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 11/01/2020 10:25

Ex Mil is elderly and forgetful and wouldn't be able to help on a practical level. Her house is clean and safe though, but if I asked her to help she would forget I had asked her within half an hour. Her partner is competent but he isn't the children's grandparent and is curmudgeonly at the best of times.

OP posts:
Dieu · 11/01/2020 10:30

I think a daytime contact solution is a perfect solution, and should be easy to do. It will be hard without a base, but then that's his problem.
I must admit though, I wouldn't be pussyfooting around him as to the reasons why. He would be told exactly what I make of the shitty cat house, and the kids staying out until all hours. I'm guessing he's not reasonable or motivated enough to be shamed into action, but I'd be giving it a try!
WineThanks

Rubyupbeat · 11/01/2020 10:40

Vouldnt you arrange that he picks them up and takes them out for the day, I know they are older, but there must be somewhere they could spend time at, have a nice meal etc....
He is still their Dad and an idiot to live in those conditions, which I agree is no place for kids.
Not sure how easy it will be for him NOT to get full custody if something should happen to you?
Anyway hope it gets sorted

Rubyupbeat · 11/01/2020 10:41

Couldn't

Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 11/01/2020 10:50

@Dieu I would tell him, but the dc don't want me to break their confidence.

I'm going to say something like 'Dear X, the dc have expressed a wish to see you during the day and not overnight. The house is not suitable for overnight contact but the dc would like to see you. They feel that they would like more quality time with you during the day. Perhaps a saturday from 11 till 6? They would like to do something outside the house like lunch or visiting grandma.'

OP posts:
Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 11/01/2020 10:50

@rubyupbeat I don't think he would want residency if I died, but I don't want to take any risks.

OP posts:
Tryalittletenderness · 11/01/2020 10:53

You could invite him to yours to see the kids for a few hours instead of them going. He might welcome that given the overcrowding, and then you know kids are ok.

Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 11/01/2020 10:59

He doesn't like doing that as I think his girlfriend likes him there. They have a dc together. From what my son says, he spends most of his time playing computer games (I suspect he's gambling) so he's a lazy parent who won't make that effort.

OP posts:
Tryalittletenderness · 11/01/2020 11:08
Flowers
lyralalala · 11/01/2020 11:17

Putting guardianship in your will won’t guarantee anything

If the children’s father wants residence of them another relative would have to involve social services and go to court so you need to make notes of everything you’ve been told and keep a diary of why you’ve stopped overnight contact

In your shoes I’d be very specific about why you are stopping overnight contact to him and keep a record of it so that you can show he had the chance to rectify the issues and didn’t

FullOfJellyBeans · 11/01/2020 11:39

Get legal advice. You are obviously nbu to not send them or want them to ever live in those conditions but you need proper legal advice about how to ensure this doesn't happen.

MyDcAreMarvel · 11/01/2020 11:43

The guardianship in my will would be what I would need, thank you. it’s not, as it’s not legally enforceable. You also need to apply to the courts for their step dad to get PR.

Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 11/01/2020 11:45

Thank you, I will speak to a solicitor. If it is possible for their stepdad to have PR that would be a better option.

OP posts:
Ishotmrburns · 11/01/2020 11:52

Definitely take some legal advice, but I imagine if you married your DP, they were living with him full time and they had stopped contact with their bio dad then surely that would count for something?

Original poster
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 11/01/2020 12:02

Dp and I are getting married in November so that might help.

OP posts:
MaderiaCycle · 11/01/2020 12:07

Just say DD has said she doesn’t want to stay overnight anymore but would like to know if you’ll... take her to X, can she come for her tea, see you at Y etc.

Widowodiw · 11/01/2020 12:16

I honestly think that you need to speak to him and say that there are some
Concerns that have been brought to your attention and go from there. Do you think that if he knew that the state of the house was upsetting the girls he would do something about it? Remember his partner also lives there so perhaps he needs to get her in check. You really need to see the house yourself could you just turn up a d somehow invite yourself in? I say this as my child is a bloody snob when it comes to these things, you need to see “how bad” it really is. Also what does the play out mean? I find it very difficult to believe that your kids
Are out until
11pm. If they are then don’t send them
Back and say that they have to
Meet in a place/ do an activity rather than go to
The house.