To distance myself from friend because of her dog training?

[VallyRey]

Friend and I bought puppies at the same time (so similar age). Not on purpose, we’d actually lost contact and happened to turn up to the same training course. Mine is a cross husky, hers is a Doberman. Very early on her dog showed dodgy behaviour, pinning other puppies to the ground and biting their necks. She was ultimately asked not to bring her pup back.

We still met up for “play dates” but despite my pup being bigger, hers would constantly bully my pup and we had to separate them a few times. As hers got much bigger, the play dates stopped as I just didn’t trust it and we kept in touch through Facebook with pics etc.

Since then her dog has grown quite aggressive and is now in one-one training. She told me her dog was much better now so we met up this morning. I didn’t even recognise her dog walking towards me, it looked like a bloody military dog or a dog from obedience demonstration videos. Wow I thought ... I must get the trainers number! On meeting her dog showed absolutely zero interest in me or my dog. It just sat very quietly. Ears alert, eyes forward. Turns out the trainer is a “balanced” trainer who worked for the military as a dog handler. The dog has been trained on a slip lead. It seems to have had a total personality change ... in that it has NO personality now. I feel sorry for it. It’s like a robot.

The latest is that she’s taking up schutzhund training to exercise the dogs “natural instinct to protect”. I think she’s creating a time bomb personally.

AIBU to distance myself from her?

I certainly wouldn't meet up with the dogs. Do you have any other interests in common? This doesn't sound like someone you are actually close to.

Her dog was a problem , she fixed it and she wants to do follow up training she's being a responsible owner who was probably advised by the trainer to do it . It seems like she can't win

The follow up training is teaching the dog to attack on command!

I would be concerned about what training methods were used. Some trainers use devices that cause electric shocks, others use devices that stab the dog with sharp spikes. Perhaps ask the dog's owner how the outcome was achieved?

No spikes or electric shocks, just a thin lead around the dogs neck. She showed me on my dog and it involved yanking the lead everytime the dog stepped out of line. I couldn’t do that to mine personally

As much a people won't like it some dogs need a firmer hand than others

All of the below obviously without seeing the actual dog but ...

Sounds like she's done a fantastic job to me, to be honest - even if her choice of trainer was harsh, believe me the dog would still be romping all over her when just with her if she hadn't put the work in, they know exactly who they can take the mickey out of.

Nothing wrong with Schutzhund training if done properly and sensibly, either.

All just sounds like someone who has put a lot of work in to harness the natural instincts of a strong-willed dog that could undoubtedly have been a problem without the work, to be honest.

It sounds like she is putting a lot of effort in to sorting out the problem behaviour. And if the dog is being trained to protect I suppose it will teach it when the right and wrong time to show aggression is? Obviously meeting up with her is up to you, it doesn't sound like you're particularly close anyway.

So what if the dog is being taught to attack on command? It's a working dog just like any other. Police dogs do the same thing and they aren't destroyed when they are retired are they?

I can understand why you are anxious and tbh I don't see what her dog or your dog will get out of social events with each other.
I don't think it's fair to be hard on her though, she is doing her best by the specific breed of dog she has chosen.

YANBU to distance yourself because you don’t like her and don’t approve. You aren’t required to do either of those two things and you don’t sound like you are friends anyway, so I’m unsure why you need to ask.

As for dog training. I don’t agree with cruelty to achieve results. I also don’t agree with having a dangerous dog and not doing anything to keep it, the public and other animals safe.

Schutzhund is NOT ‘training to attack on command’. It’s a test of police dogs and similar. For a Doberman it’s ideal training, she’s obviously got a taste for obedience training and wants to take it further.

I’d worry more about a husky cross with ‘personality’ tbh.

This isn’t a working dog, it’s a pet. She was disappointed as she intended to show but turns out the dog wouldn’t cut it in the show ring as it walks funny (I have no idea, this is just what she told me). She tried to put it in agility but it just kept going for the other dogs so was thrown out of that too. I do feel for her as she loves the dog (well, is obsessed with it to be fair) but I can’t help but feel she’s gone over board with the training. I don’t know, I’m a dog lover and it has such a fun character when it was little. Now it seems unhappy.

Very early on her dog showed dodgy behaviour, pinning other puppies to the ground and biting their necks.

I don’t see this as a fun character.

I’d worry more about a husky cross with ‘personality’ tbh.

Me too.

OP I think you are not appreciating the type of dog she has. They need structure and management, and a job for their brains to do. Good on her for harnessing that, it sounds as if Schutzhund will be right up its street.

Different breeds (well yes, and different dogs, before someone says it, although to me breed type will always win through) need very different management to make them that breed's version of acceptable to society. Dobermanns need a strong bond and management to make them in to the wonderful dogs they should be.

@VallyRey You said the dog was attacking other dogs and untrustworthy when it was younger and now you're calling it 'character'.

Dobermans are working dogs, it doesn't matter if it's supposed to be a pet. It still has working traits and those need to be fulfilled otherwise you will have a difficult dog on your hands.

You don't sound like you really rate as a friend. She can't do anything right in your eyes and you have grown apart twice anyway.
Just distance yourself because you don't have that much in common, it happens all the time.
No need to bitch about ther dog training though, she is doing her best.

Trained Schutzhund dogs aren't designed to be dangerous attack dogs at all. Read up on the training; some dogs just need to be trained differently.

This isn’t a working dog, it’s a pet A pet with a specific character trai that she has found a good training regime for!

Chances ar e that her dog now has a public persona - one of disinterest and clam - and a private one that is probably goofy, puppy playful!

That's what you are supposed to do for dogs with such attitudes - find something that they like and distract / train them with it for as long as it takes!

I own an over;y friendly, very bouncy 15 month old. It has taken ages to find just the right distraction to calm him. I too have tried agility, where he whined and pulled and wanted to play all the time. 2 trainers, one of whom I reported (she shouted - which scare me! - , smacked his nose and said he had bitten her when she was flapping her hands in front of him) the other I go back to over and over again (she let him taste her hands, didn't recoil, shout or slap, just put him in his place and prasied him when his bum eventually touched the floor!)

I'd like to meet your firend, get that trainer's number!

You didn't like when the puppy had a personality. Now you don't like that the dog is incredibly well behaved.

I'd stop meeting up with her because you can't help but judge.

I dont think this should be as big of an issue as you've made it!

Bloody hell, her dog was disobedient, she's had it trained, and is moving on to further training.

Just because the dog is a 'pet' does not mean it isn't a working breed. Their minds need to be active and working a lot of the time, I have a working dobermann myself.

To be honest I think you sound jealous that she has trained her dog so well and is moving onto advanced training.

Does your dog just about sit and wait on command?

I wouldn't be near, through choice (sometimes I have to be through work, when people realise the damage they have done), any dog trained using punishment.

Yes, I think shes creating a ticking timebomb that she believes is under her control, but is actually behaving only out of fear of the pain of punishment.

I have had to work with dogs who have been 'trained' this way, some are too far gone but the ones that aren't can still be a real struggle to get them back to a point where they are safe, but can communicate their feelings.

Anyone who thinks dogs trained this way are happy, safe, reliable... clearly knows nothing about dog behaviour.

I don't know what your problem is. The dog was difficult so got a proper training. The dog will still be playful at home.
There is no issue with Schutzhund style training too. Elements of it were part of basic training where I am from. My dog had "set off" a word. And a proper training. Not an army level, but proper, because he was aggressive piece of shit we all loved unconditionally I preferred to yank him few times during training then having to put him down for attacking smaller dogs. Funnily enough he was a mix of husky and GS. Pigheaded, energetic, dominant and smart. Can be deadly combo.

You are not her friend. You know it, we know it.

What punishment? OP doesn't mention any punishment? Lead checks aren't punishment and the thin lead is the equivalent of house line - all good trainers advocate them as they are no real threat to the dog but the dog gets used to being led, not being destructive.

Also the dog is not being trained using fear and punishment. Where the hell would you get that idea from?!