National Anthem

[flapslack]

Just had an odd conversation with my 12 year old DS who asked me what our National Anthem is. Didn’t even know the tune.

Obviously I could have taught him but really I am just wondering if this is something not taught at school any more?

I can’t remember learning GSTQjust seemed to know it - maybe brownies. Learnt third verse for a remembrance event. I do think it can be a dirge but find the following version moving at the Proms

I doubt DS knows the words but the poor kid has been dragged to enough motorsports events over the last 12 years that he definitely knows the tune!!

1. It's a fucking tuneless dirge
2. The Queen can fuck off
3. God doesn't exist

Everyone saying that the national anthem assumes that God is real, well AC/DC weren't actually on the Highway to Hell either but people are happy to sing along to that...

I presume you also never say 'for God's sake' either?

I'm a Scot and find it offensive due to the Marshall Wade and rebellious Scots verse. Why not have a competition to choose a new one?

Years and years ago a friend of mine came home and told her mum that she needed to learn the Grand National for school the next day. Her mum thought it was a bit odd but it was the right time of year and my friend was adamant that she was correct so they dutifully went through the runners and riders until she had memorised as many as she could.

She came back from school the next day very upset because what she should have learnt was, of course, the National Anthem.

And I'm not being a troll but I genuinely don't understand why I should be proud of being English. I mean, I love this country, it's my home, but why is it something to be proud of? Being born here isn't an achievement, I could have been born in Azerbaijan or Poland or something instead.
As a Scot I can't understand your point of view at all. I realise that people on MN are all 'international'. Would French people think like this? I doubt it. Rather than being proud you seem ashamed of being English. That is the standard woke position I suppose.

I'm neither proud nor ashamed. Being English is just an accident of birth for me. Tell me why I should be proud and why it offends you that I'm not. And I don't know wtf you're on about because it's got nothing to do with being 'woke'. I'm not going to start saluting a flag and acting like I'm superior, just because I was born in England, to validate some random woman online.

Why are you proud to be a Scot?

It is a dirge. Plague away.

Did it actually used to be taught in schools? I know the first and second verses, but not entirely sure where I picked it up. Can't recall ever having sung it in school.

We sang it at school pretty regularly.

It was the highlight of one's school career if you were chosen to be the drummer to "announce" the national anthem on Speech Day

Since both my DS's were singing in church choirs from an early age (and are now both church organists), they do know the National Anthem.
Personally I much prefer Rule Britannia.

My daughter was selected for an England sports team - she told me after their first match that several of the newbies didn't know the words to the National Anthem and merely moved their lips to the tune! She knows it now

One thing I do love about watching the England rugby team is the way they belt out the anthem with such gusto !

We were left footers, dunno if that makes a difference.

I never sung it in school, I don't think? I had to sing it at a synagogue concert, along with Hatikva, which I do love. The Brownie handbook has a page with G-d Save The Queen in it, I think you have to learn it for Highway.

And yes, not Scottish - I'm only half a Scot through my dad - but I'm glad they scrapped the anti-Scottish verse.

Have a look at one of Billy Bragg's books - he started a campaign foir the left to retake the St George's flag (yes I know St George was not an englishman he was a Turk and never set foot in England never fought a dragon blah blah freaking blah).

His arguement as a soclaiist (remeber them?) was why should the flag of his country be appropriated by the right wing when it was (for better or worse) the flag of his country?

It is sung at DD's old school (she left last year) in assembly. So some schools do still teach it. I guess it's up to the head.

I am surprised that kids don't know it. Have they never watched the Olympics or Rugby or Football? Especially kids who actually do play sport, they must have watched some kind of event or other? Or for that matter the Queen on Telly?

Have they never watched the Olympics or Rugby or Football?

We always mute anthems when watching sporting events so although my children grew up watching sport they wouldn't be familiar with anthems from them.

Except La Marseillaise, it's the only one I can stand

Agree with PP that Billy's version is phenomenal. I can still quote huge chunks of that whole performance- we watched it to death in our house- and it's become a cultural reference for many, many Scots.

My DC know the tune of GSTQ but to the PP saying shame on anyone not teaching their DC the National anthem is ridiculous. It's racist, religious shit and she's not queen of me or my DC. As a Republican, pro- Independent atheist I'm glad my DC know Flower of Scotland and Scotland the Brave ( which should be our Scottish National Anthem).

For when those troublesome rebellious Scots get stroppy;

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.

And the post Brextiy verse:)

From France and Pretender
Great Britain defend her,
Foes let them fall;
From foreign slavery,
Priests and their knavery,
And Popish Reverie,
God save us all.

Scot living in Wales so my DC know the fabulous Welsh anthem as well as Flower of Scotland.

GSTQ is dreadful on so many levels. It's a dirge and misses the point about a national anthem being about being proud of your nation and representing your nation at sporting events. Not an ode to an outdated institution.

The lone piper on the roof at Murrayfield makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Does GSTQ do that to anyone?

When I hear the bagpipes I feel very emotional
We are a small nation which has contributed a lot to the world
We are a resilient nation etc etc
whatculture.com/offbeat/20-ridiculous-things-which-make-you-proud-of-being-scottish?page=3

Scotland the Brave ( which should be our Scottish National Anthem).

I'm afraid as a Scot of a certain age I cannot hear Scotland the Brave without shouting out 'Scots Porridge Oats'.

Besides, oor anthem should be the Jeelly Piece Song.

The best thing about "The National Anthem" is that it's totally unofficial and by convention. Meaning it should be easy to change.

Personally I much prefer "Jerusalem", as the idea of lyrics by a mystic nutter (whose grave has only recently been found) appeals far more than the frankly cringeworthy dirge they try to foist on us at big events.

I know Prince Charles is a huge fan of Parry (did a BBC4 documentary a while back on him) so maybe he'll suggest a change ?

I learned it and Brownies and taught it later as a Brownie Pack Leader. My favourite verse is:

O Lord our God, arise!
Scatter our Enemies
And make them fall.
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On thee our hopes we fix.
God save us all!

I always think it’s a shame that the national anthem isn’t “I vow to thee my country”, as “God Save the queen” doesn’t seem particularly patriotic, given it assumes a) there’s a god and b) that the monarchy is a beloved institution

You might want to read the words of I Vow To Thee - half of it is about the Kingdom of Heaven, it's virtues and conversions to Christianity