The tone of the coverage of the Reynhard Sinaga case. *Title edited by MNHQ*

[Dogsaresomucheasier]

Just watching tonight’s news. I do not wish to minimise the trauma suffered by the victims of Reynhard Sinaga, but I’m really struggling with the reporting of the case; even from female journalists. It seems so full of empathy and gravitas, when so many female victims go unheard.

Tatiana - I very rarely read the tabloids, and make a point of not reading the DM, precisely because I know it is sexist (so is the Sunday Times, or it used to be, again I don't read it).

But the point I made in an earlier post was that I think that all papers are now much more responsible about reporting on rape trials than they used to be, and am interested in seeing evidence which would disprove my theory. Even op-ed pieces.

Also unfortunately as far as the law is concerned, he was convicted for a fraction of his crimes
Aroundtheworld
Since you mention this case, it’s relevant to point out that decision was taken by the DPP at the time. Keir Starmer. As for Priti Patel? It is good to see someone in government who rejects the ‘prison doesn’t work’ mantra which has dominated both parties for the last twenty years. To ruinous effect. Heinous crimes deserve draconian sentences

Ok, let's say that the EXACT SAME circumstances surrounding this case applied to female victims - so hypothetically a man raped 200 women, documented it, kept souvenirs and all this was uncovered by police. He's convicted and sentenced to 60 years.

What you would still get people in the media and in officers, social media, friendship groups saying would be:

• what were they doing going back to his flat?
• how much did they have to drink?
• has they been flirting with him or leading him on?
• did they say "no" at any point?
• are you sure some didn't consent and regret it the next day?
• have any of the victims cried rape before
• if they're lying they deserve the same sentence as what a rapist would get - false accusations ruin lives

If you find any of the above in an unironic manner regarding this case I'll give you a tenner

@Newname

If you don’t read the tabloids then you can’t really comment on how responsible the reporting of sex offences is.

It’s highly salacious.

If you want to see evidence then read the coverage yourself.

Also, 6 of Worboys' female victims were dismissed meaning he carried on raping for years. Do we really believe if 6 straight men accused one gay man of rape it would go ignored?

Tatiana my comment was on press coverage in general - you were the one who singled out the tabloids, not me.

Please send me an example of a recent salacious, victim-blaming report on rape and I am more than happy to change my view.

I hate the DM in particular and find it very sexist, but I'm not sure that nowadays they will go as far as victim blaming for rape.

the reporting feels very homophobic to me.

I agree with the people saying that it all reflects a perception that being raped against your sexual preference is vastly worse than being raped in line with your sexual preference. It leaves me wondering (in a depressing and grim way) where the victims of a prolific raper of lesbians would end up on the tabloid press spectrum of victim deservedness....

There is just no way to compensate for the fact that most people in power, in the courts, and in charge of writing this tabloid shite are white straight men. They also appear unable to compensate for their lack of empathy and inability to understand any perspective than the white male one. So they only really 'get' it when a crime is committed against someone in a way that makes them think 'wait a minute, that could have happened to ME'.

Maybe this case CAN be a the start of more empathy for ALL rape victims. Maybe now we can say to reporters 'you know when you heard that Sinaga case and thought about how you would feel if you'd gone out to a club and ended up drugged and raped? Well that's how everyone feels about being drugged and raped - women and gay people also!'

@NewName

And press coverage in general includes the tabloids. Although the only English newspapers I would single out as having truly responsible coverage are the FT and Guardian. NI and Scotland I can’t comment.

I’m not doing your homework for you, if you want to see how tabloids cover sex offences then look for yourself.

Although the only English newspapers I would single out as having truly responsible coverage are the FT and Guardian

The Guardian? Its coverage of rape cases has been appalling. Especially those which conflict with its political narrative

Totally agree @Glummy and @M3lon

Tatiana - you are the one making the argument, not me. I have no time or inclination to trawl through the tabloids looking for examples to disprove my understanding of the situation.

You seem to feel strongly about it, just send me a link to one example of an article you read recently which you thought was offesnive?

I knew you would come back with that argument!

Ok, let's say that the EXACT SAME circumstances surrounding this case applied to female victims

The exact same circumstances would be if it was a woman who committed the crimes on other women.

The Guardian? Its coverage of rape cases has been appalling. Especially those which conflict with its political narrative

Such as? (Which political narrative in particular).

I read it daily. The coverage of rape cases is responsible, sober and unsalacious. Compare with the DM or even the Telegraph.

Tatiana I did actually. At 9.19 - perhaps you'd like to go and look.

You are the one who started making ridiculous comparisons and I am not the only one who thought so. Both are evil rapist scum, neither of whom should ever be let out of prison.

I am not minimising a rapist of women. I am not stating that any of those 85 women are lying. I am merely dealing in facts because it is those facts that directly relate to the way these crimes are being dealt with in the media (which was the purpose of the thread) and it's arrant nonsense to say otherwise. It could be argued that your posts potentially minimise Sinaga's victims by referring to his 195 confirmed victims as part of an "estimated" number earlier on.

Maybe it is just semantics. I, personally don't think "may be over 100" is necessarily comparable as a figure with "confirmed 195" and I suspect Sinaga has probably raped at least double that, possibly three times the amount based on the time frames involved. The fact that it took four trials over 18 months and reporting was totally restricted and led to the Police stating that this man was Britain's most prolific rapist - in fact, I heard one senior officer state on radio yesterday that he thinks it's likely that he is the most prolific rapist the world has ever seen.

You were the one talking about comparisons between two specific cases rather than the actual reporting of same, and I've merely questioned it. As you keep saying, this thread is about the media reporting, shall we agree to disagree on the semantics but agree to agree that reporting is very often found wanting when it comes to violence, rape and murder of women.

Tatiana you and I have something in common. I also read the Guardian daily, and get mots of my news coverage from there and the BBC website.

Tatiana - you are the one making the argument, not me. I have no time or inclination to trawl through the tabloids looking for examples to disprove my understanding of the situation.

Nope. You were the one who made the claim that media reporting of rape trials is ‘much more responsible than it used to be’. I simply disagreed.

I don’t care whether you research your claim or not - altho your lack of research explains your misapprehension.

Tatiana - I didn't make a claim, I asked a question! Read my first post!!

And asked for evidence as lots of people on this thread are saying that media coverage of rape trials is still anti-women. I can understand where that perception may come from, but I haven't seen any examples myself that demonstrate that it is fact.

You clearly have, so please share it. I am perfectly prepared to change my view.

I am genuinely open-minded on this.

@Shatners

You are not the only person to dispute the comparison but I’m not the only one to uphold it. That you think the comparison ‘ridiculous’ is odious.

You’re not dealing in facts, because you don’t know what they are. No-one does.

It is not the facts of the case that determine the way the case is dealt with in the media. Yes the high numbers are a factor, yes the fact it is all filmed is a factor, I said that at the start; but the other signifcant factor is that the victims are male. Now it is abundantly clear you don’t understand that, that’s fine. I’m not prepared to argue about it because you’re never going to get it. But if you want evidence that you do not get the sentiment of the thread, there it is.

@GlummyMcGlummerson
No you wouldn’t - and if any one sick individual “did” they would surely be out of a job the very next day. This is the most prolific case of its kind in British history. Of course high profile politicians are all popping up to spout off. That’s what they do and pretty much all they are good at. Of course people are outraged .The fact that some people on here are making it about men vs women and the patriarchy is utterly ludicrous.

@NewName73

Your original claim was that newspaper reports ‘stick[ing] to the facts presented in court’.

(Of course no-one knows what the facts are, a trial is held to try establish them. Media coverage reports the arguments and the verdict.)

You then said: But the point I made in an earlier post was that I think that all papers are now much more responsible about reporting on rape trials than they used to be

Neither points are questions they are assertions. That’s what I disagreed with.

I heard one senior officer state on radio yesterday that he thinks it's likely that he is the most prolific rapist the world has ever seen
The only one with a conviction is what said senior officer meant. I know fine and well that there are more prolific rapists out there. They just haven't been caught yet.

Maybe this case CAN be a the start of more empathy for ALL rape victims

This indeed. I am hoping that everyone can see the difference in the reporting (almost hushed tones) in fact I realised it was so serious because of the tone used, I thought before I actually listened that ww3 must have started.

@newname1973
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7859673/British-teenager-19-arrives-Cyprus-court-learn-jailed.html
Headline ‘ I hope she’s learned her lesson’

I’m not sure if you need it explaining how the headline is leading the readership to negatively judge the young women in this case.

I’m also assuming you’ve not lurked around the comments section of the tabloid press, if you don’t think that a women’s behaviour will be picked apart by a baying mob.

*Yeah I get this.

On the one hand the sheer number of victims at the hands of this one man means that it was always going to be reported in terms of hyperbole and something must be done.

On the other, your man the taxi driver is thought to have raped at least a hundred women and he was bloody up for parole.

Meanwhile women across the country and actually across the world have had it drilled into them, don't leave your drink unattended, hold the bottle with your thumb over the neck etc, from when they were of age to socialise independently, for at least two generations.

And nothing gets done about it. But now that men are being affected it's a problem.*

Totally agree with this.

And any mention of the victim's clothing, behaviour alcohol intake etc has been conspicuous by its absence.

If only reports and proceedings of the trials of men who rape women were handled in the same way, ie with respect for the victims.

How about Katie Hopkins calling a child victim of sexual assault a slag? Is that acceptable?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3480476/amp/KATIE-HOPKINS-away-rope-Adam-Johnson-broke-law-girl-knew-EXACTLY-doing-s-not-paedophile-doesn-t-deserve-prison-Twitter-lynching.html

Yes KH is a bellend who needs to go live in a dark hole for eternity but her words "from would-be WAG to slag" were still allowed to be published in a high profile newspaper.

Or when Judy Finnegan said Ched Evans' victim was too drunk and "didn't have a violent rape" (lucky her) because she was unconscious in bed - I'm yet to hear her or anyone say this about Sinaga's victims.

That's because of rape culture and misogyny teaches us it's ok to speak about women like this. Male victims, dare I say it, have the privilege (the context of privilege not being 'having something good' but being protected from something bad) of never being spoken about in this way.

What they went through is awful and horrific. I hope in my heart that they are healing and that they are able to seek help for what they went through. No one is glad it happened, some people are seriously over-stretching on this thread to suggest that's the case. But it's fine to draw parallels about the way Male and female victims are reported and spoken about and the importance it still holds in our society.