The tone of the coverage of the Reynhard Sinaga case. *Title edited by MNHQ*

[Dogsaresomucheasier]

Just watching tonight’s news. I do not wish to minimise the trauma suffered by the victims of Reynhard Sinaga, but I’m really struggling with the reporting of the case; even from female journalists. It seems so full of empathy and gravitas, when so many female victims go unheard.

@MustardScreams, this guy was only caught due to a random error (which had his victim arrested). He could easily have gone on for many years, too. Again, there's not a male/female element to that.

@NewName73

You asked for a link - knock yourself out.

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/inside-court-12-the-complete-story-of-the-belfast-rape-trial-1.3443620

AraGrand

I don't see that article as an example of the press tearing a woman a part. It seems to just report the facts of the case.

No one is complaining about the level of empathy shown to male rape victims. That is a bizarre interpretation of this thread. It's about the coverage given to this case versus those where women are victims.

It's interesting that's people's spin on it though.

No Shatner.

In my very first post to you I said: The reason the Senaga case has received so much attention is a. because he was so prolific, b. because he documented his crimes which is unusual, and c. because the victims were male.

Then I said:

The numbers are comparable with Worboys. The tone is different.

Comparable does not mean the same as.

The total number of Worboys victims is estimated at over 100, the total number of Singala’s victims of is estimated over 195. Both in the 100-200 range. Both could be more.

@AraGrand
Noone is tearing the woman apart. It's literally reporting the facts of the case.

Doctors had conflicting opinions on how the vaginal tear was caused.

Like most rape trials, this case was about the word of a woman against that of a man – in this case four men. There was DNA, mobile phone data and even witness statements, but none clearly pointed towards either guilt or innocence and all were adapted by both sides to help prove their cases

And the underwear was only held up in court to show the extend of the vaginal bleeding...? Not to show she was a slut. Or asked for it. Or to tear her apart.
The video of the vaginal exam was only going to be shown to the jury because of the sheer disagreement between doctors?

Those insisting that this thread is only about the coverage and not the case itself, are demonstrably wrong. There are numerous posts asking 'were they made to hold their pants up in court', 'were they believed', 'did they get criticised for drinking' etc. Lots of posters feel that the victims in this case were not subject to the same cross examination as female victims, despite apparent evidence that in fact the victims received horrible, degrading cross examination.

I'm sorry - what point are we arguing here?

All rape victims undergo cross-examination. She they have gone easier on the men?

*Should not She

Is anyone else wondering how the victims didn't wake up very sore the next day? Especially if they were straight and had never had anal sex before. This baffles me

Really- how bloody crass. You should be ashamed. Rape also covers oral sex. Plus without being graphic he might not have fully penetrated- especially if they were unconscious and unresponsive.

What women undergo in a trial is vile. Why only sympathy for the men? Because what women undergo isn't usually reported - that's why.

@Morris

Holding pants up relates to a court case, indeed it sadly references one in particular where a 15 year old girl whose thong pants held up in court, committed suicide after the trial. But the other comments you quote ‘were they believed', 'did they get criticised for drinking' - relate to commentary in the media.

I remember the underwear case very well, it caused widespread revulsion and I saw no media outlet commenting favourably on the defence tactics. If I remember correctly it led to a change in guidelines but its up to judges to enforce the guidelines so it isn't watertight.

@AraGrand I agree with whatnot - there is nothing in that article to suggest the press has taken a view. The journalist is reporting factually on the evidence presented by both sides in the trial.

Can you give me an example where you think that press report takes a view on the victim/seeks to blame her?

It is all based on reported evidence.

The underwear of the complainant In the Belfast case also had her underwear held up in court - different country and legal system, sure but same MO.

About 1000 cases where they didn't even bother reporting. Just in the last year or so. How's that for victim blaming? Not worthy of mentioning.

I don't understand your point?

As an ex-journalist, I'm really interested in seeing examples where the media has blamed the female victims in coverage of recent rape trials, rather than sticking to the facts presented in court, which is the point of the thread.

The tactics of the defence lawyers are a different issue.

The reason this case has hit the headlines so forcefully, as many other posters have noted, is because of the scale of the crime - it's like the press will report a mass shooting in the USA, but not the individual ones that happen every day.

The total number of Worboys victims is estimated at over 100, the total number of Singala’s victims of is estimated over 195. Both in the 100-200 range. Both could be more.

Interesting choice of phrasing, there. Your use of "estimated" 195 victims might lead people to believe that figure could be lower. When we know for a fact it is not.

Worboys is known to have raped 12, Police believe it may be over 100. Sinaga (you keep getting his name wrong) is known to have raped/sexually assaulted 195. They have yet to say how many more they believe on top of that, but clearly, based on the time frames involved, it's potentially several hundred more.

Those insisting that this thread is only about the coverage and not the case itself, are demonstrably wrong

Quite, Morris. Glad it's not just me, although apparently Tatiana thinks I don't get the sentiment behind the thread although having challenged her to prove where I have disagreed with it she's failed to do so. And in fact, I have clearly, with regard to CCTV, said to another poster how valid that particular argument is.

As an ex-journalist, I'm really interested in seeing examples where the media has blamed the female victims in coverage of recent rape trials, rather than sticking to the facts presented in court, which is the point of the thread.

As an ex-journalist you’ve never noticed the difference in reporting of sex offences between the broadsheets and the tabloids, particularly the DM? Really?

Court case coverage reports the arguments of the respective sides, the facts are not known.

I think you will find that where the evidence is overwhelming, nobody ever has any sympathy for rapists and noboby blames victims - ever. EVER.

I’m shocked this thread is still here.

Worst thread I’ve ever seen on MN - and that’s saying something.

If you want to play competitive worst threads on mumsnet, I hear you and raise you one about a trans Memorial Day commemorating murders of trans people.

The posters piling on about why should trans people have their own Memorial Day when so many more women are murdered was stunning. And the comment about why should we care about a few Brazilian prostitutes being murdered when so many more women are murdered.

Rant over

@bettybattenburg

The original title of the thread was as per the attached screen grab

Worboys is known to have raped 12, Police believe it may be over 100. Sinaga (you keep getting his name wrong) is known to have raped/sexually assaulted 195. They have yet to say how many more they believe on top of that, but clearly, based on the time frames involved, it's potentially several hundred more.

Autocorrect alters his name every time I write it.

Worboys is on record as raping 12. 85 more women reported him after the 2008 case. Police reckon 100+

Now unless you’re accusing those women of lying and the police of not knowing what they about, the number of victims of the two are in comparable [NB not ‘the same’] ballparks. We’re not talking about 2 vs 200.

I would strongly suggest that trying to minimise the crimes of a serial raper of women is not a good look on a forum full of women.

Quite, Morris. Glad it's not just me, although apparently Tatiana thinks I don't get the sentiment behind the thread although having challenged her to prove where I have disagreed with it she's failed to do so. And in fact, I have clearly, with regard to CCTV, said to another poster how valid that particular argument is.

I’ve already responded Zapp’s post. Only one of her supporting
quotes refers to a trial, the rest to popular commentary.

The OP’s title and first post specifically focuses on the ’reporting of the case’.

You have not asked me to prove where you disagreed with the sentiment of the thread, altho you don’t show any strong signs of doing so. You simply want to argue the toss over numbers.