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Original poster

The tone of the coverage of the Reynhard Sinaga case. *Title edited by MNHQ*

521 replies

Dogsaresomucheasier · 06/01/2020 22:13

Just watching tonight’s news. I do not wish to minimise the trauma suffered by the victims of Reynhard Sinaga, but I’m really struggling with the reporting of the case; even from female journalists. It seems so full of empathy and gravitas, when so many female victims go unheard.

OP posts:
Gonetoget · 07/01/2020 10:15

Agree with the points made by @BewitchedBotheredandBewildered.

It’s interesting how a woman would be regarded at best as foolish for taking shelter in a strange mans home and it would be used as a stick to beat her, if anything came of it, but men don’t have these considerations. It’s a male privilege that they are completely unaware of and I’m sure that’s part of the outrage in the reporting of it.

araiwa · 07/01/2020 10:17

This isnt some mumsnetters jumping the shark, theyre jumping the entire pacific ocean

A ludicrous and completely grim thread

Equanimitas · 07/01/2020 10:19

The Worboys case just isn't comparable because his initial conviction was only on one count of rape, plus five sexual assaults, one attempted assault, and twelve drugs charges. He was sentenced to life. More recently he was convicted of four further sexual offences, and again received two life sentences. It's consistently been made clear that he shouldn't be released till it was clear that he is no longer a danger to women, and so far he's been in prison almost 11 years. Yes, we know that all of this happened because he was undercharged in the first place (hence the Parole mess) but they just didn't have the wealth of evidence that they've got in the Singala case. The courts can't sentence for crimes the accused has not been convicted of.

namechangetheworld · 07/01/2020 10:21

The coverage will obviously be different just due to the sheer number of victims.

The most sensible comment on this entire revolting thread.

MorrisZapp · 07/01/2020 10:22

The defence said that the victims actually were gay and were pretending to be asleep. Criminal defence lawyers will say whatever they can to discredit the prosecution, however laughably far fetched.

So it appears that the victims were heavily criticised and discredited by the defence. Presumably were it not for the video evidence there wouldn't have been a court case to begin with.

ColaFreezePop · 07/01/2020 10:23

@ginghamstarfish Thanks to the women who challenged Warboys release Singala won't be getting parole.

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 07/01/2020 10:34

Many victims probably didn't report because they didn't think they would be believed, and they didn't want to put themselves through that.

I don't judge them. The first man to report actually got arrested for fighting Sinaga off and injuring him. Shock

TatianaLarina · 07/01/2020 10:41

The Worboys case just isn't comparable because his initial conviction was only on one count of rape, plus five sexual assaults, one attempted assault, and twelve drugs charges

Why on earth would two cases of serial sex attackers not be comparable?

The police think Worboys may have had over 100 victims. 85 women came forward to make a report after the 2008 case. Singala has had 195 known victims.

At no point did I say that the numbers were the same. Indeed I said that it’s partly the volume of victims that makes the Singala case noteworthy.

However to dismiss comparisons of the two, and to fail to grasp the impact of the Worboys and Reid case on the police - both of which resulted in IPCC investigations, and produced a sea change in their approach to sex offences (along with Savile, Hall, Harris) is bizarre. Quite apart from the parole issue, for which Singalas victims have Worboys victims to thank.

whatnow123 · 07/01/2020 10:41

It seems, sadly a lot of people aren't reading the facts of the case. The defendents were pulled apart on court.

They are on video, clearly passed out and the defence claims they are "playing a game" and are "gay men who can't accept their sexuality" & yes they did question why these men went back to his house.

It's not a competition.. but at least read the facts.

Grumpos · 07/01/2020 10:47

Why are people purposefully obtuse?? Ffs

YANBU to point out the disparity between the reporting and general attitude towards female and male rape victims.

Any rape is horrendous and equal in its profound affect on the victims. But you’re right - why now are we having reviews into date rape drugs?

Rape doesn’t just affect women but there is a huge difference in the cultural and media reaction between men / Women. How are there people who can’t see and / or admit that? It’s a massive problem.

TatianaLarina · 07/01/2020 10:48

The thread is about the coverage. Not the court case. Read the posts. They’re not referring to the trial itself.

Of course the complainants were ‘pulled apart’ in court, that’s why the adversarial system is highly problematic for sex offences and so many people drop them.

Equanimitas · 07/01/2020 10:49

Why on earth would two cases of serial sex attackers not be comparable?

I didn't say they would, @TatianaLarina - rather the reverse. I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to all the people who claimed the cases were comparable.

TatianaLarina · 07/01/2020 10:49

That was to @whatnow123 ^^

WikkiTikkiWoo · 07/01/2020 10:50

There has been NO victim blaming in the reporting. Not even in daily fail comments section. No "well, what were they expecting going back to his house". You would never find this in a case about female rape.

TatianaLarina · 07/01/2020 10:52

@Equanimitas I was one of those who said the cases can be compared. That doesn’t mean they’re the same.

Trewser · 07/01/2020 10:54

Op, you are bvu.

The only thing that gave me pause was the emphasis on the rapist being gay and the victims being mainly straight. As if somehow that made it worse than if they were gay.

TryingToBeBold · 07/01/2020 10:54

So my understanding is:

He is likely to have raped over 200 men but has only been charged with 48 so far. This is partly because some victims are unknown, some have been unable to be contacted and others have not wanted to proceed with the court case
(A number of men woke up disorientated and confused but thought he was just being a good samaritan).. so yes. Men still do not report.

He was only found because one of his victims fought back. Attacked the rapist. Police then involved.

The words "straight man" were used because the defence said that these men were at least bi curious or gay. Therefore their sexual orientation was disputed.

Yes the defense didnt show up the victims underwear or say they "asked for it". But they DID say the men were pretending to be asleep, fully consenting and it was all part of a sex game. So yes. They were questioned and not believed throughout parts of the trial.

As for the use of GHB.. it's been going on for years to women yes, but up to 200 victims in such a short space of time (reported over 2 and a half years). If anyone else was caught using it in this capacity then it would be reported just as much.. it's also been heavily highlighted in the case because of the effects it has and how is has enabled this to happen in the first place.

A lot of women don't report because its "his word against hers etc".. in this case there was hours and hours of footage. No question of what was happening. This is very very different to a standard rape case.

TatianaLarina · 07/01/2020 11:04

Yes the defense didnt show up the victims underwear or say they "asked for it". But they DID say the men were pretending to be asleep, fully consenting and it was all part of a sex game. So yes. They were questioned and not believed throughout parts of the trial

You were expecting the defence to believe the complainants without questioning them? 🤔

The posts here noting the lack of standard questions around victims behaviour are not referring to the trial but to the media coverage and commentary.

NotDavidTennant · 07/01/2020 11:10

I don't see how anyone can compare the coverage of this case to a comparable case involving women, as there simply has never been a comparable case. Even the Worboys case, which shares some similarities, was different in many major respects.

NewName73 · 07/01/2020 11:15

the press would have torn into a female victim. How drunk? Hadn't even socialised with him earlier in the evening. Went off alone with complete stranger.

Is this still the case though? Yes, that's how they used to do it maybe 10, 20 years ago, but I thought they had improved since then, and there are guidelines, anonymity, etc.. Can anyone link to a recent article where this has been the case?

whatnow123 · 07/01/2020 11:21

I've had a look a news articles and Sky news TV reports on the Worboys case (which isn't really comparable) and I don't see this wholesale victim blaming in the press. He's painted quite rightly out to be a monster.

I'm not saying it didn't happen but if there are reports articles blaming the victims and showing sympathy for Worboys (especially post conviction) can someone share them.

ShatnersWig · 07/01/2020 11:22

At no point did I say that the numbers were the same

No, Tatiana, you said The numbers are comparable with Worboys

And they aren't.

TryingToBeBold · 07/01/2020 11:23

This case isn't comparable to any other.

Fraggot · 07/01/2020 11:24

A ludicrous and completely grim thread

Agreed. Why MN allow these types of threads to stand I’ll never know.

Complaining about the level of empathy shown to male rape victims? Sure.

Trans-bashing? Absolutely.

Mentioning the McCann parents or Meghan Markle? Hell no, don’t be ridiculous.

MustardScreams · 07/01/2020 11:25

The main difference with Worboys is he was able to assault and rape women for over twenty years before being caught.