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Original poster

The tone of the coverage of the Reynhard Sinaga case. *Title edited by MNHQ*

521 replies

Dogsaresomucheasier · 06/01/2020 22:13

Just watching tonight’s news. I do not wish to minimise the trauma suffered by the victims of Reynhard Sinaga, but I’m really struggling with the reporting of the case; even from female journalists. It seems so full of empathy and gravitas, when so many female victims go unheard.

OP posts:
Brefugee · 07/01/2020 07:58

thanks @HandsOffMyRights - tbh I'm finding this thread bizarre.
I get that the title is a bit… meh. But a bit of basic reading comprehension would go a long way here. I'm not seeing man bashing but i am seeing bashing.

@Newmetoday - i only looked last evening but the FWR board was also saying the same thing: great that this prolific rapist has been caught, bloody awful that the victim who came forward was disbelieved and charged, the reporting has been excellently sensitive and should be how rapes are reported in future.

So again for anyone jumping to the last page to get a quick comment off: the OP is saying that the way this case has been reported is how other rapes should be reported.

Brefugee · 07/01/2020 07:59

as an aside: when the dust has settled what would be really great is if more people would get on the case of awful reporting, and not just the "usual suspects" of the "hatchet faced humourless man-hating feminazis"

FamilyOfAliens · 07/01/2020 08:00

Haven’t read your thread

Perhaps do that first, @Grumpydad1540, and then come back and comment from a position of being informed, rather than ignorance about what’s been posted?

annualleavepurchase · 07/01/2020 08:06

I know what you're talking about op.

I was talking about the poor woman that was raped by 12 men in Cyprus, yesterday in work.
A female colleague starting talking about 'girls crying rape' and how if she was a man these days she wouldn't want to be alone in a room with a 'girl' 🙄
Someone brought up the man raping all of those other men and there was nothing but sympathy for the victims (which of course is right).

Singletomingle · 07/01/2020 08:08

What strikes me isn't that there are negative comments but that it is almost completely from women. I've seen everything from why are they being treated so well upto its men they deserve it. Not just on here I hasten to add!

Sootyandsweep2019 · 07/01/2020 08:09

I think this thread is disgusting, and the only thing you should be "aggravated," by is it happened. Of course the conviction of he largest number of rape convictions in history is going to make the news; and really don't think there would be any less furore if the man involved had been heterosexuals and doing this to girls.

Clymene · 07/01/2020 08:11

The other difference between this case and that of Worboys is that 14 women reported him to the police over 6 years and the police failed to see the pattern.

I very much doubt that would have happened if the victims were men.

Arthur2shedsJackson · 07/01/2020 08:12

This is a totally wrong use of the word ‘aggravated.’

ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 07/01/2020 08:13

I've seen everything from why are they being treated so well upto its men they deserve it. Not just on here I hasten to add!

Where have you seen someone on MN saying that men deserve it? Surely you can provide a link for that claim?

Thornhill58 · 07/01/2020 08:13

136 rapes. That's staggering. A victim is a victim regardless of gender.

Wh0leCl0ves · 07/01/2020 08:13

If the women had called them mid attack and they’d found a phone with hundreds of previous attacks videoed I’m pretty sure they would.

Clymene · 07/01/2020 08:13

And for the record, there isn't a thread in feminism on this topic. It doesn't involve women after all and that's what we're mainly talking about there Smile

RuggyPeg · 07/01/2020 08:14

My oh was telling me about it yesterday. He's literally never mentions anything ever about similar crimes against women. I told him that this is happening to women every minute of every day and how appallingly low conviction rates are and he just simply dismissed it and said yeah but this is awful. So, yes, I totally agree op, I find it deeply upsetting at how much news coverage and outrage this is receiving versus the ongoing crimes against women.

chomalungma · 07/01/2020 08:18

Male rape victim being interviewed in TV
Police questioned him about his sexuality, being up for gay sex.Didn't believe he'd been raped. Talked about his alcohol intake. He felt very reluctant to report it.

The police said they have learnt lessons. Hmm

Singletomingle · 07/01/2020 08:19

Clymene there is very definitely a thread on this in feminism and as of 1 minute ago its still there.

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 07/01/2020 08:21

This just came up in my facebook feed, less than five minutes ago. m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157099734367183&id=21226447182&anchor_composer=false

Facebook comments already have people posting that she's lying about being raped.

UnderHisEyeBall · 07/01/2020 08:29

I kind of get the OP but think ultimately you are wrong. When I heard the news I did think, I really hope this case knocks some of the rape apology in our society on the head.

StillCoughingandLaughing · 07/01/2020 08:30

So again for anyone jumping to the last page to get a quick comment off: the OP is saying that the way this case has been reported is how other rapes should be reported.

Well, thank heavens you are here to patronise us all. I know exactly what the OP is saying and I’m still disgusted by her wider comments.

ShatnersWig · 07/01/2020 08:31

I have a feeling from reading this thread, a lot of people haven't actually read much about the case. Here are the basic facts:

He has been convicted of 159 attacks - 136 rapes, 8 attempted rapes and 15 indecent assaults on 48 victims.

That's 48 victims, out of 195 victims that the Police know about because they have videos of 195 different men being attacked. Of whom 70 have been identified. 136 rapes against 48 men - so the majority if not all were raped at least twice, some three times.

Those videos were made between 2015 and 2017, so all 195 men were attacked in a two-to-three-year period.

There have been four trials over 18 months for this man because he refused to admit anything, so like a lot of rapists, putting his victims through the ordeal of testifying and cross examination.

This man has been in the UK since 2007. We know he attacked 195 in a maximum time frame of three years, but possibly within two. Therefore as it is unlikely he suddenly started attacking men in 2015, and if he had been attacking on the same frequency from 2007 there would be some 800 victims all told.

Bluegrasstrail · 07/01/2020 08:31

This thread is pretty bad. The case is quite unique.

  1. Many of the victims were unaware of what had happened to them until approached by the police.
  2. The perpetrator made recordings of the rapes, and kept trophies which allowed many of the victims to be easily identified.
  3. This meant it was possible to charge him with a huge number of rapes. I imagine many more men will realise they may have been affected once they see the news reporting, leading to the identification of some of the unknown victims.
  4. It's also shocking that the first victim to report the rape was arrested for assaulting the perpetrator and was clearly not believed by the police.
  5. The description of this victim as an 18 year old rugby player next to the description of the perpetrator as a short and slight unassuming man plays in to this victim blaming narrative.
  6. The defense used, that all the victims consented, that they are all ashamed and still in the closet and that the videos are just part of the sex game played by two consenting adults etc. also follows a typical defense narrative for rapists.
  7. An additional factor is the reporting restrictions which has meant that we are receiving all the information about the case at once, rather than piecemeal as the case progressed.
Brefugee · 07/01/2020 08:35

Well, thank heavens you are here to patronise us all. I know exactly what the OP is saying and I’m still disgusted by her wider comments.

which ones specifically? The only awful comments i've read on this thread (and they aren't actually awful, tbh, but YMMV) are the ones decrying a thread talking about something quite important.

MNHQ
HopeMumsnet · 07/01/2020 08:37

Morning all,
Thanks for the reports, we've edited the title to make it more reflective of the OP below it.

CharlottesPleb · 07/01/2020 08:39

It's great that MN have altered this thread to remove the callous tone of the OP towards victims of rape, if you're RTFT now that's why people were reacting with such surprise and dismay before.

FamilyOfAliens · 07/01/2020 08:42

It's great that MN have altered this thread to remove the callous tone of the OP towards victims of rape

You need to work on your reading skills. MN have altered the title, not the thread. The previous title was clumsy, but there was nothing callous about it.