The tone of the coverage of the Reynhard Sinaga case. *Title edited by MNHQ*

[Dogsaresomucheasier]

Just watching tonight’s news. I do not wish to minimise the trauma suffered by the victims of Reynhard Sinaga, but I’m really struggling with the reporting of the case; even from female journalists. It seems so full of empathy and gravitas, when so many female victims go unheard.

I think that as ever, the whole story has to be read, not just the headlines. Bluegrass has it. This case is appalling, and appallingly complex. The first victim who presented to the police was arrested himself.

I don't think it's helpful to the countless female rape victims we know of to make comparisons with this case to try to find reporting bias. This case is, to our knowledge, unique. I'm extremely glad this man is locked up, and his crimes recognised for what they are.

Apologies, I hadn't seen it. But thanks for the patronising HTH.

I have a feeling from reading this thread, a lot of people haven't actually read much about the case.

How familiar are you with the John Worboys case where the women who reported the crimes were not believed, one told ‘black cabbies don’t rape’, another told her injuries were from ‘falling over’, which is why he was able to continue for so long. Or Kirk Reid?

The reason the Senaga case has received so much attention is a. because he was so prolific, b. because he documented his crimes which is unusual, and c. because the victims were male.

Did anyone ask the men what underwear they were wearing?

What was the original thread title?

Or how much they’d had to drink or whether they flirted with the man previously.

Interesting there is plenty of CCTV footage of the entry way to his flat....but none showing the men walking, or stumbling back in with their faces blurred as there are in all high profile rape cases involving women.

I don’t think I do agree with the OP about the mainstream media reporting. I don’t think, if this were a case of a man who had kept clear video evidence of hundreds of rapes of women and had been caught in the same way as this man was, that the media would be acting less horrified. What I find interesting is that so many men were raped and didn’t report it. I don’t believe they all remembered and felt nothing and I do suspect more women might have been brave enough to come forward if it had happened to them, despite the appallingly low conviction rates for rape. I think all the focus for years has been on how difficult it is to get a conviction for rape and how it happens to women. That’s not going to encourage any man to report a rape. I think it’s a good thing that this case has been highlighted, as it could help men and women. As for date rape drugs suddenly being taken seriously - I seem to remember they are periodically taken seriously as a knee jerk reaction to someone actually having been able to prove something. It’s the way our media and politics works.

YABU. The problem isn't that these rapes are being inappropriately reported; it's that crimes against women are often inappropriately reported. But reporting these crimes equally inappropriately wouldn't fix that problem.

Op I totally get it and think the same.

There’s also not been a photo of the complainant in this case published in the tabloids, showing cleavage with the face blurred out. (As in the Cyprus case).

I get OP's point. These are hideous crimes and the victims deserve all the empathy in the world and for their trauma to be taken seriously. It does highlight however the lack of this very often in reporting on female rape victims.

I saw it mentioned on social media, I think, that the defence presented that all the men had consented and were pretending to be asleep was seen as not credible: why would a man agree to do that? So if that is the case, why is it seen as credible that women would consent to being choked, severely beaten and so on? Those are questions that could now usefully be asked.

I don't want male victims to be blamed, but the stark difference in public response makes the blaming of female victims all the more obvious and painful to me.
Exactly.

Tatiana Very familiar with it, actually, as someone I know was one of Warboys' victims. But that's got sod all to do with the fact that some people on this thread are talking about this case when they evidently have read almost nothing about it bar a headline.

What about that case in the US last year where a college man was caught in the act of raping an unconscious woman and got the most pitiful sentence due to impacting his future. 6 month sentence, caught in the act, severely impacted victim

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/06/06/us/sexual-assault-brock-turner-stanford/index.html

To be compared with the sentence of a woman for false accusation of rape in the UK as the accusation damaged the man - 3 yr sentence. Per the judge, her actions showed a “blatant disregard” for the rights of the men she accused.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/woman-jailed-for-three-years-over-false-rape-claim-in-the-uk-941267.html

Rape of women by using date rape drugs has been ongoing for decades. The danger to women is apparently ok, but once men become victims to the same thing, then steps need to be taken. It's the ongoing double standard.

Very familiar with it, actually, as someone I know was one of Warboys' victims. But that's got sod all to do with the fact that some people on this thread are talking about this case when they evidently have read almost nothing about it bar a headline.

Well then you should understand at first hand the sentiment behind the thread. The thread is about the coverage of the case compared to that of female victims, not the facts of it - which we can all read in the newspaper and don’t need mansplaining.

I'm wondering how many rapists there are like this across the UK, who haven't been caught yet.

The scale of his acts (and that of Warboys) is sobering, and they each got away with it so long because they had it down to a well-rehearsed routine. How many others?

I believe the reason the defence excuse that the men consented and were pretending to be asleep failed was because in a number of the videos the victims were clearly snoring.

Well then you should understand at first hand the sentiment behind the thread

Where have I said I disagreed with the sentiment behind the thread? Please point that out to me.

The thread is about the coverage of the case compared to that of female victims, not the facts of it

But it's the facts of this case that potentially explain the difference in the coverage of this case compared with others, so to understand and discuss it, it's good to know the facts. Most of us don't read newspapers now and get our facts from all sorts of sources. Some people even think the Daily Fail is factual and has no bias whatsoever.

Is anyone else wondering how the victims didn't wake up very sore the next day? Especially if they were straight and had never had anal sex before. This baffles me.

@slipperywhensparticus is quite right. There seems to be an complete acceptance that these men were all innocent victims (which of course they were). There don’t seem to have been any hints that they were in some way ‘asking for it’ (which of course they weren’t). All this is exactly as it should be. Sadly this isn’t always the case with women rape victims whose clothes, demeanour, drink intake and past sexual history are often scrutinised in detail to ensure they didn’t in some way contribute to their victimhood.

Baffles me as well blueeyes.

I think this case is utterly (hopefully) unique and the fact that every rape was filmed by the perpetrator on a mobile phone and every victim was unconscious and unaware of what happened to them is what differentiates it from other high-profile cases in the media. Not the gender of the victims.

Horrifying and utterly appalling.

No - i think PP had a good point where there is no footage (that i know of) in the public domain of the drunken men going back to the flat. That definitely happened in the Ched Evans case (different scale but the reporting is what we're talking about).

This is the kind of thing this thread and the other on the FWR board is about. It's not about the crime (staggeringly awful) or the defence (also staggeringly awful) or the numbers (mindnumbingly huge). It is about the way things are reported.

I've seen comments by women lately that they probably wouldn't report a rape unless it was committed in a police station and she was half beaten to death screaming "no no no" so the duty sgt could hear it. Because that is how awful it is to report a rape, not be believed and it not even get to court. And men report rape (when they realise they have been raped) even less. Because they don't get asked about their underwear but they do get asked if they're gay. Or get arrested for fighting off the attacker. And a lot of this lack of reporting has to do with the way these things are reported.

Hopefully the way this has been handled in the media will help at least men to come forward in future, without the fear they will be monstered in the press or by the police.

I think I get your point OP
These crimes are sickening and I really feel For the victims but yes it is annoying that now men are the victims not just the perpetrators an “urgent” enquiry is needed
I wonder how many of the victims sexual histories were pulled apart in court, were they asked how much they had drunk, what they were wearing, why they were alone at night ?
Hopefully none of them because it’s not relevant BUT we know how women are often treated in such cases

Honestly, this whole thread is in really bad taste. Anyone suggesting that had the victims been female the perpetrator would have got less than 30 years or had excuses made on their behalf needs their heads examining. By all means argue that many prison sentences are too light or that the justice and prison system are ineffectual, but that’s not what this is about. Unfortunately some people in this world are so deranged and sick the best we can do is pray we never cross their paths.