111 failed to diagnose

[Shedidnt]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/calls-nhs-111-helpline-probe-21216411?fbclid=IwAR3SMrfs8ptX0YbrlJozTL_PyeRzd2f6ijkqZsg_7P3EFkEi3F3Psbg2aAg

Am I correct in thinking that the warnings we are all given about not going to A&E needlessly is the cause of these deaths, and we're dealing with Joe Soaps and their questionnaires on 111 rather than trusting our own judgment?

However you can also be misdiagnosed at A & E, and at your GP.

I knew I was sort of dying, but I didn't know what to say to 999 apart from to say I need an ambulance because I think I'm dying? So I called 111.

Yes the A & E sent me home with the intussusception. they were very brisk with me. My GP was pretty cross.

We still have a choice, just because you know better doesn't mean the system isn't useful, if you don't want to use it then don't. . It has saved me 2 trips to A&E in the past and also got me out of hours appointments quickly

I rang 111 after I'd collapsed with chest pains ( was out a few seconds so I was worried but not to the point I thought it was a heart attack/ stroke or such), they wanted to send an ambulance but I asked to be put through to a clinician who agreed as my local hospital is a mile away to get myself there.

Turns out I had a broken rib so they were right to send me to a&e but I didn't need an ambulance as where is was it was a minimal risk of a collapsed lung or further damage.

I only used 111 as my gp hadn't opened yet and the out of hours gp happens to be right next to a&e anyway so just wanted advice on which one to go to.

111 Has been excellent here. On one occasion they arranged for a doctor to come out to visit dh and on another they arranged a prescription at the all night pharmacy. There is also a 24hr walk in clinic.

I've used them and they saved my life.

I also used them for my partner when he was really ill in the evening and no GP OOH in my area and again, saved his life. They called a Doctor out and he ended up being admitted to hospital that night for 2 weeks with daily nurse aftercare for about 5 months

I fell at home in the evening alone and couldn't get up or walk on my leg and crawled to the phone. I didn't want to be phoning 999 as thought I was being a twat to call them and thought 111 may suggest an out of hours GP so called them, they did an over the phone triage (same as you get at A&E) and they sent an ambulance round to do an assessment. (crawling to open the door was fun!) On the way to A&E they did a blood test and my diabetes was out of control (I was on new meds for about a week which were too low a dose) and I would have ended up in a diabetic coma so if I hadn't have called so I would have been crippled and dead!

Completely pulled all my muscles from ankle to thigh. Couldn't walk for over 3 weeks and needed crutches and physio for 6 months. Still hurts in cold weather.

Blaming 111 and calling for it to be removed is complete bollocks.

111 is there for people to ask for advice and help on non emergency issues or GP out of hours as plenty of others have said.

They are NOT there is you find someone unresponsive on a cold floor, or you child has been very ill for over 24 hours and can't keep fluids down, or you cut your finger to the bone or you have crippling abdominal pains that you can't move (been there with that, doubled over and went to GP via a taxi and was told to go to A&E so I then took a taxi to A&E (yes! Taxi's will take you to A&E) and ended up in hospital for 5 days).

There has to be a certain amount of personal responsibility and gut feeling when yourself or someone is ill.

if I had fallen and my partner had come home and found me on the floor out cold or unable to move to get to my phone he would have phoned 999. Not 111 or the GP.

If you don't like it, don't bloody use it and let it help other people.

There are numerous deaths due to GPs and A&E misdiagnosis. Should we scrap them as well?

It has saved me 2 trips to A&E in the past and also got me out of hours appointments quickly
That's all it should be. An appointment service for OOH.

The best thing seems to be in a severe case is if the GP rings ahead and you get seen straight away in A and E. This worked well for us in the past with small GP next door. Not that has merged with a new practice which never has emergency apps or any in fact. So now need to go to A and E or 111/999

111 has its flaws but it is an essential service to prevent the emergency and frontline acute services from being further overwhelmed. Around 12-15% of 111 calls are referred onward to the 999 service. The rest are dealt with, the majority very adequately. 111 gets millions of calls; it is unfortunately the law of probabilities that a small minority of cases fall through the net. This happens in any service, anywhere. You don’t hear of the million or so cases that were dealt with efficiently and very well. You hear of the 1 out of a million that wasn’t. It is terrible that these things happen and NO ONE from 111 or 99 ever wants to be involved in a case that goes wrong. Some of you talk like they go to work determined to kill someone.

The algorithm is also not perfect. It is, however, highly researched and based upon the common patient group, not the individual, which is why sometimes it fails. If you don’t agree with the outcome have a grown up conversation and explain why.

Some of you need to educate yourselves properly on the system rather than reading and relying on the tabloids and your individual experience.

For those that want to improve your knowledge regarding children and ill health. Here is a website with lots of info and a red/amber/green checklist to help with decision making on best place to go/phone.

what0-18.nhs.uk/

I fell at home in the evening alone and couldn't get up or walk on my leg and crawled to the phone. I didn't want to be phoning 999 as thought I was being a twat to call them and thought 111 may suggest an out of hours GP so called them, they did an over the phone triage (same as you get at A&E) and they sent an ambulance round to do an assessment. (crawling to open the door was fun!) On the way to A&E they did a blood test and my diabetes was out of control (I was on new meds for about a week which were too low a dose) and I would have ended up in a diabetic coma so if I hadn't have called so I would have been crippled and dead!

You would have just called 999 if 111 didn't exist and received help in the same manner.

it is unfortunately the law of probabilities that a small minority of cases fall through the net.

If I lost my daughter due to 111, I would be gunning for their heads on platters.

What a fucking callous thing to say.

Why was NHS Direct changed? It was manned by nurses instead of call centre staff. It's all down to tory cuts. Theyve closed all the walk in centres that were opened under Labour.

If you don’t agree with the outcome have a grown up conversation and explain why.

Because 5 children died.

Are any one of you who are mothers telling me that if you received advice to home-treat from a service (111) and your young child consequently died that you'd just put it down to probability and statistics? You'd have nothing to say against 111?

You would have just called 999 if 111 didn't exist and received help in the same manner.

No I would have called the out of hours GP number and received help in the same manner. As 111 is now my OOH GP number I called them.

I personally feel that 111 shouldn't have cost 5 children's lives clearly the service isn't working and it should stop.

I admit I've called in the past regarding my children for advice and they've all suggested to go to the walk in centre within two hours so since then I've just gone to the walk in centre straight away without calling 111 before hand And the times I have done they have needed medication.

However if I felt something was seriously wrong I'd call 999 straight away.

I think we can trust our instincts to know weather we need to see a doctor or not and introducing 111 has caused confusion and making us second guess our instincts.

111 is pointless in my opinion.

I've used them and was sent an ambulance pretty quickly - the guy I talked to was very knowledgeble and diagnosed me accuratelt over the phone while the GP I had seen that morning had failed to do so (spectacularly failed in fact)

Most systmes are as good or bad as the people using them - none are fail safe/ Obviously it is tragic when it goes wrong and I think the pleas to not clog up a nd e fall on deaf ears. The time wsters will ignore them anyway. Every time I have been to a and e (sent by GP) there have been people there with ludicrous complaints that barely needed a doctor let alone a and e.

The insistance on questionnaires can also be problematic. And it applies right across the board for 111 or 999.
My sister phoned 999 when my niece went into status epilepticus. Initially she was told 'there will be a ten miute wait as were experiencing a high number of calls' eventually she got through to someone, had to explain what status epilepticus was and why this was an emergency, the operator then said ' I need to ask some questions' second question was ' does she suffer from epilepsy' - well yeah. Luckily paramedics arrived fairly swiftly and all was well in the end. Also luckily my sister is used to dealing with emergencies and is able to keep calm and communicate well.

@GetawayfromthatWelshtart You needed an ambulance - not an OOH GP.

I think we can trust our instincts to know weather we need to see a doctor or not and introducing 111 has caused confusion and making us second guess our instincts.

100% yes.

@shedidnt no one is saying that!!!! People are just arguing that 1) you need to use your common sense and not rely on 111 for something you feel is serious 2) even doctors make mistakes.

111 don't diagnose they direct and sadly nothing is 100% with health.

The problem is the less you invest in healthcare the more preventable deaths will occur. Either because they're advised not to go to A&E by someone who hasn't seen the child in person or because they wait too long to be seen while in A&E. If you want better emergency care you need to pay for it and to train people to work there. At the moment we're not doing that and the Conservatives have no plans to improve things.

It shouldn't exist.

I’ve used it before and it’s brilliant.

If you looked at the statistics at how many people die in hospital who could’ve still been alive with different care, would you say that hospitals need to be shut down?
You’ve just read a few articles and want to get on your high horse.
Unfortunately no system or person is perfect.