111 failed to diagnose

[Shedidnt]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/calls-nhs-111-helpline-probe-21216411?fbclid=IwAR3SMrfs8ptX0YbrlJozTL_PyeRzd2f6ijkqZsg_7P3EFkEi3F3Psbg2aAg

Am I correct in thinking that the warnings we are all given about not going to A&E needlessly is the cause of these deaths, and we're dealing with Joe Soaps and their questionnaires on 111 rather than trusting our own judgment?

Have used 111 a couple of times for my son, found it fantastic actually, both times they found him local me out of hours care without our needing to go to A&E. It’s good at what it does, it isn’t a substitute for good judgement any more than a plaster can function as a bandage.

Once I went to a 10pm out of hours appointment as directed by 111 and actually ended up getting lost. In reality the side entrance to the building was open, but it was pitch black and the main entrance was locked with all the lights off so I thought it was closed. The side entrance wasn’t visible from the main entrance and there were no signs. I know, I know, I was silly - but in my defence I was poorly and tired.

Called 111 back and the adviser was really helpful, stayed on the phone with me whilst they called the practice and directed me. I remember them being ever so kind and caring even though it was a dumb situation and I was pretty much wasting their time.

@Tistheseason

Getting further pain relief for an existing back condition is not really a 111 issue. Normally I’d expect to ring a GP for that and ask for a prescription that someone else would pick up for you.

If you can get an OOH dr to visit you for that in your area good luck to you.

I also work for 111 under ambulance service but we do not diagnose we can't over the phone that's why we refer to face to face consultations if it's safe and appropriate.

Getting further pain relief for an existing back condition is not really a 111 issue

I'm not posting my full medical history on here but you really have the wrong end of the stick. I was not asking for further pain relief- I was pointing out I had sudden acute onset of pain without an accident.

It was appropriate for 111 to arrange the HV which they did. It was not appropriate for A&E (their words) and GP surgery closed over Bank Holiday weekend.

Anyway, 111 is still doing the best with the resources and funding it has.

You just said it yourself. If it was that sinister why did you not just go to A&E in the first place?. People need to take some responsibility for themselves.

It wasn't sinister at all.
The 111 operator had my full medical history so knew A&E was not the place to go. HV was appropriate as GP surgery closed for 3 days.
Thanks for your concern, though

That’s not service available in London so it’s a moot point.

For you it is, yes.

No not for me, for significant % of the population.

I also am a call assessor for 111 would personally like to know which 111 service that was because if you don't pass the first exam you are not took on then the second exam is the same you fail you don't get took on then you have the 150hrs of taking calls with a coach then you have to pass more tests. Then 3mths later we had more training and another exam. A good phone Manor is great but doesn't necessarily mean a safe call.

We are definitely not a diagnostic sevice we will never diagnose.

London makes up around 13% of the population, something not being available in London also means it's potentially available to the other 87%

People can just turn up to walk in centres and most urgent care centres without going through 111 first. In gp hrs and after the gp has closed.

Manner not manor

Gp surgeries should be open AT WEEKENDS and for longer hours each day

In an ideal world, yes, but where are the GPs to staff those hours going to come from? They can't be forced to work.

No walk in centres in our large town, the only way to get an OOH GP appointment is via 111
Coincidentally? on an average weekend up to 80% of people visiting A&E shouldn’t be there. I know this statistic is real due to circumstances I don’t want to go into, I’m not guessing or believing what I see in the press. It was presented at an internal meeting by the A&E department

All the walk in centres have been closed in our large town.

Gp surgeries should be open AT WEEKENDS and for longer hours each day

This is an interesting statement. Technically this IS available as it is your local OOH GP service. GP practices had money deducted from there funding and directed to provide OOH GP services. It's not feasible to have a deduction for others to provide this service and THEN still have to provide it yourself!

We still have NHS Direct I think - not called them for over a year now. Always found them helpful and their advice has been correct. They never sent an ambulance though.

I had to use 111 recently. The rep sounded like a sullen teenager who mumbled her way through the script, mispronouncing words (she was British - so no language difficulties) and then kept asking - "Wot?" so I had to repeat myself multiple times. It was almost more painful than my actual injury!

Agree it was better when it was staffed by nurses. More of a conversation with someone who had experience dealing with patients.

I like the 111. I've used them a few times and they have been brilliant. They have directed me to an out of hours clinic before and I've had my issue sorted within hours. I've also called them for advice and they have been very helpful, and I know lots of my mum friends used them when we all had newborns and had concerns every now and again. I can't fault them really. I know that they're not perfect but I think they're doing their best with limited resources, like the NHS do as well. I would much rather contact 111 first to work out what I have to do before going to A&E etc, as they're always struggling with the amount of people turning up.

Obviously it depends on the ailment though. Mine have always been relatively minor, so I can't really comment on how they would do in a life threatening situation (although if it's a known emergency it should be a 999 call).

Sounds like postcode lottery depends which area of the country you live in which services you get. It's wrong as people can't travel. And as a 111 call assessor we hate telling people that there's no services in their area or that we can't put them directly through to a doctor/nurse/paramedic. We get abuse on a daily recurrence from callers. We also get regular people abusing the system who phone and answer questions falsely knowing that an ambulance will be sent too them. That thankfully is now being tackled as unless it's a life threatening emergency those ambulances have to be validated first. We take more then 6 thousand calls a day and thats just my area. We really are trying our best to help everyone who calls as i try and put myself in my callers shoes especially when it's a sick child or a patient who is end of life as I've experienced both of these. We can only try and continue to improve but we need me staff more ooh services especially mental health which services are now greatly in need.

We need double the doctors we have, which means training more, persuading all qualified ones who have quit back into the NHS, and welcoming ones from overseas with messaging as well as it being legally possible to get visas.

I agree with all of this, @LadyCordeliaVorkosigan, and think they could do more to encourage young people into medicine.

I'd be happy for doctors' (and nurses') student loans to be written off after spending 10 years working solely in the NHS. Doctors' tuition fees alone must be shedloads, as it's over 5 years instead of the normal 3. They can't work p/time while training as they have to work on the wards, so can't commit to other work.