Ex refusing to return son

[SiempreDot]

Cross posting here for traffic.

Ex came to pick up our son on friday and saw there were moving boxes. Temporarily moving to parents whilst a new house two minutes from ours is renovated.

I haven't told him our new address due to emotional abuse and stalking - this was based on legal advice from a solicitor who said there's no legal reason you have to disclose your address.

We are in an appeal hearing on a Monday where he has appealed the judge's decision which ruled against himS He has now text me to say he is refusing to bring our 3 year old son home because our son has said apparently we're moving to Brighton (we live in the north). This is totally bizarre. I believe he's trying to set me up before court on Monday to say I'm some kind of flight risk.

This is one of a long list of inflammatory things he's done before court. On Christmas Day, he refused to return him at the agreed time claiming his car had broken and then all his family had hidden their cars down a side road when I arrived.

I don't know what to do if he doesn't return him tomorrow? Can the police be involved? The court order says drop off at 5pm on Sunday.

If he does fail to to return him, I'm minded to say in court that he isn't safe to have our son because of his decision to engage in these games. Can someone advise me how to play this in court? And whether the police could do anything tomorrow?

Really out of my mind with worry.

Argh DP not DH

Non-mol orders are not supposed to work all by themselves. They are basically a warning to a thuggish ex from the courts.

Enforcement - and effectiveness - depends entirely on the victim reporting any breach - a breach constitutes at the very least contempt of court. The OP would need to report even the smallest toe in the door, so to speak, not let things pile up until she finds her ex wielding a baseball bat in her living room one night.

Actually it’s also down to the police to step in when the non mol is breached. Having rang 101 myself a few months back and being put on hold for 45 minutes and then being told I would have to wait days for someone to come talk to me about it all, I can say with some certainty that while it’s not the polices fault their budget and numbers have been slashed, I personally feel much, much safer knowing that my ex doesn’t know where I live, therefore cutting out one major worry about mine and my family’s safety.

I understand by the way that it would be nice to be able to share these basic details with my ex about where our children live but it simply isn’t an option and it’s because of the choices he’s made in life and his behaviour.

I hope it goes well in court today

Hopefully your son is home now.

It remains that the OP leaves herself vulnerable to looking like someone playing games in the court if she won't give her address and has nothing to back up her claim that the ex broke into her house, stole items, stalked and harassed her. No police report, no investigation, just her word that all this happened.

@SiempreDot how are things, you've been on my mind

Hi @RandomMess

I phoned the nursery on monday morning whilst at court. My son's father had refused to bring him to nursery. I raised his behaviour in front of the judge. Ex maintained that he thought I was moving to Brighton although the judge was quite clear that he had no evidence for this and questioned why he thought this. The judge said he had no right to act unilaterally and attached power of arrest to order. He also through out the appeal claim and maintained current contact until next hearing. Couldnt have gone better really.

That's a great outcome, very reassuring that the judge saw through his manipulative behaviour.

Excellent!

Yep, totally.

The judge did put a prohibitive steps order on me to not move out of the north west region, which is inconsequential given that I wasn't but it still made me angry that they took his claims with some credibility even though the judge referenced the fact he had no evidence for them.

But yes, so glad for it to be over now. Ex must have spent a grand on that appeal hearing, with application and representation costs and got nothing he wanted, only increased tensions and stress over christmas.

The fact there is a prohibitive steps order stops your ex pulling a similar stunt and wasting everyone's time again... also means he can't claim the judge was biased.

Yes, I hope so. It's just irritating they order this whilst criticising him for not having any evidence and suggesting he made up claims.

In response to others who asked questions, there are several police reports with regards to breaking into my home and stealing my bank statements and credit cards. I have called the police during each incident. There is a record. It hasn't been joined up by authorities

Thing is if he applied for a PSO even if you had zero intention of moving I believe they would still award it? If you had compelling reasons as to why you needed to move and how you would facilitate contact they would likely overturn it.

I don't know how it works. I suppose in a technical sense, why wouldn't they put one in place if I'd denied moving away it would, and it does, have no consequence. It's just the injustice that he cooks up claims to justify his decision to withhold returning to me - which even the judge acknowledged was patently obvious. And on a point of principle, I just feel like why reward these kind of lying behaviours

Oh I get it, I do wonder about it let him think/claim that he "won" which may shut down his behaviour longer?

Just recognise your ex is all about getting off on the drama and control,

...it still made me angry that they took his claims with some credibility even though the judge referenced the fact he had no evidence for them.

You are a woman. This is the reality you have to deal with. You are going to have to get past being angry over points of principle and start fighting for your own protection here. Principle doesn't exist in the family courts, sadly. They are venues where the second class citizen status of women is reinforced, where society's general refusal to take women seriously and insistence on the privilege of men are front and centre for all to see.

You are going to have to apply for permission to move anywhere else in the UK now, and argue as to why such a move would not get in the way of your DS's relationship with his father and why it would be in the best interests of your DS. The PSO is not at all inconsequential. No matter what great job offer you get elsewhere, no matter what nice man you meet who has a job in London or Edinburgh, you are going to have to take into consideration the fact that you will have to clear any move with the court first, and nobody can predict what a judge might decide. This is not a false victory for your exH, I am very sorry to say.

there are several police reports with regards to breaking into my home and stealing my bank statements and credit cards. I have called the police during each incident. There is a record. It hasn't been joined up by authorities
I don't wish to put the boot in here, but I believe you could have escaped the possibility of a PSO wrt any moves on your part by arguing for a mutual disclosure of address and then getting an order of protection - this way you yourself could have joined the dots for the relevant authorities. Never rely on the authorities to do any dot joining on behalf of a woman.

You as a woman are not going to have your interests served by the courts unless you fight tooth and nail to get justice for yourself. Meanwhile, your ex will get whatever he wants, which is above all the ability to exert control over you. His lies will be listened to and your truth will have to be restated over and over again, plus you will have to provide proof of any claim you make.

If your solicitor was representing you in court, you should fire him or her.