To think I am not body shaming or ripping larger people off?

[BimBamBoomer]

I've NC because this is potentially outing!

I have my own tiny but fairly successful business making clothes. Mostly I make a few specific lines to order (via Etsy type websites) and have sizes 6-26 available. However I also have occasional sales on Facebook where I have a page and sale group. The sales are a mix of returned customer orders, things I made to the wrong size or colour by accident, slight seconds, unsold stock from events (festivals etc) and some one offs made with amazing material I've picked up or pieces I've upcycled. I tend to end up with most of my stock for the sales in sizes 10-16 just because a) that's what most people order so that's what I have most seconds of, b) if I'm making stock for an event I make more of the most popular sizes for obvious reasons, and c) if I get a bit of amazing material I try to make the most of it especially if it was expensive.

I've recently had my end of 2019 sale and since then have had a flurry of messages from unhappy larger people. I suspect I've been named and shamed somewhere as it's come out of the blue in the last week. They're not happy that I don't have enough stock in their size, and that the more unique one off pieces are mostly in the middle sizes. I've been replying explaining why and that they can order larger sizes from my standard range and have them made. If they wanted a replica of a one off they've seen, I can give a quote but it wont be cheap! But I've now had a few bad reviews on my page from people who think it's unfair that the some of the larger sizes cost more. I agonised over this but in the end felt I had to have sliding pricing on some items (not all - I charge the same for all sizes for about half my range). But a size 8 in some styles uses literally half the material of a size 24 - and I charge for materials plus an hourly rate for my time (at a rate that covers overheads etc). The materials I use aren't cheap and I don't know how to make this fair or how to answer the bad reviews. I'm quite upset and feel really down that people think this of me.

Am I body shaming, really and honestly?

I wouldn't charge more for bigger sizes. I'd charge more across the sizes to cover it and make it equal. Or I'd just stop making bigger sizes if they werent financially viable.

Reading this I'm wondering a couple of things:

• are you charging enough for the core range to make a decent margin on the materials and your time? Primark can charge the same for all sizes because it's got enough margin to make a profit on every size sold - but the materials/labour are not their biggest costs and the cost of selling the garment (shop costs) is independent of garment size.

• how you are wording your marketing? Are you making it clear that your core range is sizes 10-16 but that you can produce bespoke garments in sizes 6-26 to order, or does the wording/presentation muddle this up and lead customers at the ends of the size range to expect to find garments to fit off-the-peg? The core range and bespoke elements need to be clearly separate. And perhaps you need to hold back some of your special fabrics for the make-to-order range. Getting clear separation here will also help you with DSR and your returns policies.

About the bad reviews. If these aren't actual customers you should that request the sales portal removes them. Someone can't review a product/service they haven't received.

though people are getting fatter in general, the vast majority of people seem to fall between a modern 10 and a modern 18, surely?

I was wondering about this. I thought more people than ever before were larger than an 18 so surely there should be more demand for those sizes than ever before? I'm always really surprised to hear those sizes don't sell well, when women of larger sizes are constantly crying out for more choice of clothing.

Either people are getting larger or they're not. What exactly is going on? Genuine question.

I was totally with you up until you said "If I make 10 things in size 20-26, I've used the material that could have made 15 in the 10-16" - That is ever so slightly unfair, almost greedy as you will most likely make more money from 15 10-16 pieces rather than 10 size 20-26 pieces (even with sliding prices).
You also said that you have previously responded by saying you can make bespoke pieces but they won't be cheap!
I respect all of what you said and fully agree that materials & labour result in added cost - of course. However the fact that you're making more size 12/14 pieces due to demand is meaning bigger women are having to either miss out or pay the bespoke cost, just because it makes you more money, in terms of quantity of dresses. As, like I said, I imagine 15 size 10-16 dresses make more total profit than 10 size 20-26?

Is this Carolina's Dress Room by any chance? I only wonder as I know they go up to size 26 and I've noticed they also never have bigger sizes available.

I don't think you're body shaming at all, most small businesses charge more for larger sizes due to the cost of the materials. But to be honest, if you want to please everyone, stop selling larger sizes, under that company name. Make slight variations to your designs and under another company name, sell those, for whatever price will cover the costs of materials, your time etc, and then they won't have a "price" to compare it to...

However the fact that you're making more size 12/14 pieces due to demand is meaning bigger women are having to either miss out or pay the bespoke cost, just because it makes you more money, in terms of quantity of dresses.

She is running a business, not providing a public service.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with her business decision to go with the priority of 'just because it makes more money'.

Anything else bar offering a bespoke service for a reasonable price given the amount of work and material involved would risk her livelihood. And a bespoke service would necessarily rule out her services for those who couldn't afford it.

Agree with Retroflex.

On the basis of what most people in this thread have said, I think companies who make a petite range should charge less for them. After all, short people require less fabric. Do tall people agree the tall range should cost even more than the regular length?

The sales are a mix of returned customer orders, things I made to the wrong size or colour by accident, slight seconds, unsold stock from events (festivals etc) and some one offs made with amazing material I've picked up or pieces I've upcycled

Have you made this information clear on your sale announcement page? If not then it won't be obvious to most people.

If you charge more for the larger sizes do you also charge less for the size 8s ?

As someone who is a size 22 I don't find you to be unreasonable at all. In shops that sell larger sizes as well as standard sizes there are always loads of smaller sizes in the sale and very little in the larger sizes. I don't complain to Mr Sainsbury that i don't have as much choice in his sale as a size 12 does as thats the luck of the drawer.

Walnutblossom and schoolcats, there are more factors than just amount of fabric to take into account.

Quite often, depending on style of garment, new pattern making is required for smaller than average, larger than average and taller than average sizes. That takes a significant amount of work/time. Only if the style is basically a sack shape is this point irrelevant.

I was totally with you up until you said "If I make 10 things in size 20-26, I've used the material that could have made 15 in the 10-16" - That is ever so slightly unfair, almost greedy as you will most likely make more money from 15 10-16 pieces rather than 10 size 20-26 pieces (even with sliding prices).

She’s running a business

From what I can gather, the OP is working alone, or at least on a very small scale and if so, the work she does cannot in any way be compared with factory produced clothing in terms of sizing, pricing or anything else.

I am a sewer and I take my hat off to anyone who has the time, energy and bravery to make a living from it - the people I know make minimum wage at best.

Considering the exploitation involved in the clothing industry as a whole, it makes me very sad when I see caftspeople being accused of greed when charging for their own skill/time/materials.

Hi OP
Could you PM link to your clothes please, would love to check them out.

I think you can make the sizes you want.

Yanbu on the cost although I think for large retailers all sizes should be priced the same, especially for garments made from cheaper material like cotton. The price to the retailer when making at scale must be tiny and not worth pissing customers off over.

Obesity correlates with poverty. I think a bespoke type retailer like you shouldn't have to worry about this but the big ones should.

I read Hunger by Roxane Gay which was really insightful about what it's like to be very large and face extra costs and hassles at every turn.

Thank you for all the replies

Just to say, I am not either of the businesses suggested though! I'm nowhere near that size of operation And no, I'm absolutely not naming myself on MN, whether on the thread or by PM.

I am a bit at the poster who said I was "greedy" though. Did you miss the bit where I pointed out that larger items hang around in stock for ages whereas middle sizes sell out fast? I am a one woman band, I literally cannot afford to make less stock from expensive materials and then not sell it for 6+ months. Which is why I only carry a couple of larger pieces as stock, but do make larger sizes to order whenever anyone orders them!

Agree with other posters.

You are a small business. Make the stock in advance that will sell.

I'm a 26, I'm perfectly aware more fabric is needed.

I buy a lot of handmade items for DS. They get more expensive as he gets bigger. Fine. Also in similar sales to yours there are often lots of a particular size. That's life. No one has to offer a sale.

YANBU and I’m a size 20. I’ve seen much larger scale businesses charge more for larger sizes and I understand it’s because more material needed. And yes if you’re making items to sell (not to order) then of course you’d make them in the more popular sizes.

Lol at all the different offensive metaphors for larger size women's clothes like comparing their clothing to a king size duvet!
OP, you are not fat shaming, and what you say about cost is logical, but the issue is that growing your business will be easier if you don't alienate a significant proportion of your potential customers. Whatever the nasty comments on here are telling you, your charging policy is obviously annoying people and is coming across as a little bit insensitive to people who are larger sized. You are within your rights to charge what you want but it isnt great PR to make potential customers feel like a King Size duvet. And i speak as a slim person. I just think a business is more than purely costing, it's also about good PR and marketing.

“I was once a size 22..i work hard to be a healthy size 12..and I do not want to subsidise other people who are happy to stay obese.
Its fine if that's what you want but don't expect me to be bearing a financial penalty. ”

This kind of comment reads very much as ‘I worked hard and I’m better than you lazy fatsos’ rather than anything to do with the cost of clothing.

@Shesalittlemadam 😂😂

Are you the person from my pasta example😂 Obviously someone who does things for profit so they can pay their bills will concentrate on products which make them profit 🤦

*i am amazed at the sort of bitchy "they can just lose weight to pay less" type of comments that people come out with who have no idea how some people struggle with their weight. It's so ignorant.

I’m fat. And I to totally get why you charge more for larger sizes