To think I am not body shaming or ripping larger people off?

[BimBamBoomer]

I've NC because this is potentially outing!

I have my own tiny but fairly successful business making clothes. Mostly I make a few specific lines to order (via Etsy type websites) and have sizes 6-26 available. However I also have occasional sales on Facebook where I have a page and sale group. The sales are a mix of returned customer orders, things I made to the wrong size or colour by accident, slight seconds, unsold stock from events (festivals etc) and some one offs made with amazing material I've picked up or pieces I've upcycled. I tend to end up with most of my stock for the sales in sizes 10-16 just because a) that's what most people order so that's what I have most seconds of, b) if I'm making stock for an event I make more of the most popular sizes for obvious reasons, and c) if I get a bit of amazing material I try to make the most of it especially if it was expensive.

I've recently had my end of 2019 sale and since then have had a flurry of messages from unhappy larger people. I suspect I've been named and shamed somewhere as it's come out of the blue in the last week. They're not happy that I don't have enough stock in their size, and that the more unique one off pieces are mostly in the middle sizes. I've been replying explaining why and that they can order larger sizes from my standard range and have them made. If they wanted a replica of a one off they've seen, I can give a quote but it wont be cheap! But I've now had a few bad reviews on my page from people who think it's unfair that the some of the larger sizes cost more. I agonised over this but in the end felt I had to have sliding pricing on some items (not all - I charge the same for all sizes for about half my range). But a size 8 in some styles uses literally half the material of a size 24 - and I charge for materials plus an hourly rate for my time (at a rate that covers overheads etc). The materials I use aren't cheap and I don't know how to make this fair or how to answer the bad reviews. I'm quite upset and feel really down that people think this of me.

Am I body shaming, really and honestly?

No, you aren't. I'm a size 20. Sometimes I'm disappointed that things I love don't come in my size. I have a choice though...If it worried me that much I'd go on a diet!

They aren’t genuine potential customers. They’ll have just jumped on some SJW bandwagon and you’re the latest easy target for keyboard warriors

So glad I'm not the only one this occurred to - and yes, when I was fat I expected to pay more too

Personally I wouldn't post "explanations", OP; rational folk will understand anyway, and with the rest you'll never win

It's a difficult one because most high street fashion & all shoe shops will charge the same so the customer is not necessarily educated enough about it. Apart from trainers I can't think of any shoe shops that charge more for a size 8 vs a size 4.

They do this with tights & it honestly it annoys me as I'm 5ft 10 so can't make my legs any shorter.

And in retail buying terms for the high street, the vast amount of stock will be purchased in a size 10 & then size 8 & 12 which are pretty equal, with a much smaller amount in the "fringe" sizes. Hence why you can go to a small store & see a 5 skirts in a size 10 & only 1 size 16.

You're a small business, not a retail giant like Marks & Sparks. They can absorb the cost of charging the same prices for sizes 6 - 22, but you can't. People seem to gripe about anything and everything these days. Your pricing reflects your costs.

FWIW if I saw those reviews on your Etsy page, it wouldn't put me off. Anyone with half a brain should feel the same. You're not shaming at all.

If anyone really pushes it point them to your local school uniform supplier website. I guarantee that aged 6 school shirts are not the same price as age 16 school shirts. It is not fat shaming. Simply cost of materials.

I'd agree with a previous post, I re-brand and have a separate plus size offering...or offer plus size commissions on styles to order. Then I would consider charging the same from size 8 to 18. I say this as a sewing person (I was going to write sewer ) I'm about an 8 usually and can obviously get a skirt of of a pretty small bit of fabric.
You need to do what makes you money IMO.

I buy stockings from a smallish independent English company.
They make a "curve" range of said stockings for larger customers.
Last Yr they asked via their fb page for customers to vote on a pricing system.
Up until this point all the stockings were the sane price but as the curve ones cost £
%50 more to make and the company only sold a small amount they proposed a %25 price increase across all sizes to make it viable to keep making and selling bespoke larger sizes.
Interestingly I was only person to respond tgat I felt this was unfair to the "normal" size customers.. And I did not want to subsidise the few who were happy being very much larger.
I got slated... Including by owner of company.
A month later it was announced that over whelming votes had been for two pricing points.. £10 for sizes equivalent to dress size 6-18 and £15 for the curve range.
Apparently lots of customers felt like I'd had but wouldn't voice their opinions.
I felt so humiliated by the responses accusing me of day shaming, not being I. The sisterhood.. Blah blah.. That I now boycott the company.. And I was a very very good customer!
I was once a size 22..i work hard to be a healthy size 12..and I do not want to subsidise other people who are happy to stay obese.
Its fine if that's what you want but don't expect me to be bearing a financial penalty.

The company I mentioned won't make lingerie in small back sizes tgat would fit my dds.. Cus "it would mean putting prices up over whole range because it costs to much to produce small runs of certain sizes"
The hypocrisy was not lost on me.

Do OP.. Stick to your business model.. Why should your business or core customers subsidise a few?

Take your time to source cheaper fabrics that are different to your "main range", and then produce a limited plus size range 2-3 times per year and when it's gone.... it's gone...you don't have to produce size 22, 24 if the sizes don't sell - do what's right for your business

Why to make larger women feel great. Cheaper fabrics because they don't deserve anything nice for committing the crime of being fat.

Ffs. I'm currently a size 18 so nit huge, but I'm definitely feeling the sheer hatred towards women my size compared to my "normal" size 12.

The reason junior trainers cost less is vat, no other reason. A 'junior' 4 will cost less than an adult 4, and the latter will cost the same as an adult 8.

No - they just want cheaper stuff and are probably trying their luck! Everyone knows a size 6 will take less material to make than a 18.

There are a lot of people who just don't understand how business works...I make cakes and if I advertise them with a price there's always someone who says "but you can make your own for just xx, rip off" totally failing to understand that the idea of the business is to make a profit!

YADNBU, these are people you dont want or need as customers so by all means explain if you want but otherwise ignore

@BimBamBoomer YANBU
Sorry to hear that you need to deal with some real idiots!
I would have done the same!

I have a friend who runs a retro / theatrical / historical replica clothing business, with corsetry and all the fancy stuff. She stopped making her outfits in sizes above ~UK 18 because of similar hate given to her by some customers. Also, she noticed that the return rate in this category was really high (as there is higher variability in body shapes in these sizes, and more customers were dissatisfied with the fit), so it only consumed her time for no extra profit. She does it as tailored-to-measure option only now.

@SteelRiver But the shops aren't writing off the cost though. They're not so charitable that the money for extra materials disappears into thin air and eats some of the profits, the cost is spread across all sizes so everyone has pay.

This really annoys me about clothes more fabric means higher costs simple.

Why people who are very over weight feel others should pay for that is ridiculous it's like saying soft play should be per family when 1 kid and 2 kids is a totally different cost for the business.

Am I body shaming, really and honestly?

No, you're not.

Those people looking for a great deal on larger sizes are a bunch of cheeky fuckers.

I am average sized and if I go to a sale in a shop or try to buy something in an online sale, usually all there is available at sale prices is the very large and very small sizes, with nothing in the middle. Same goes for shoes.
I had piles of sizes 6 and 24/26 left every single time and I can't afford to operate like that!
Exactly!

Make sure you state in bold caps on your sale page that sales consist of one-off items, and LIMITED SIZES AND STYLES are available.

Maybe look at SympatheticSwan's suggestion for future business decisions.
I have a DD who tried ordering 34H bikini tops online last spring. She sent all five back. I ended up making her one using her $65 from a specialty shop sports bra as a pattern.

Ask them if they pay the same for their children's single/toddler bedding, as they do for their king-size bedding. Could they demand that there's equal double bed sets in a bedding sale? Or do retailers just mark down what doesn't sell?

It isn't just about fabrics- a lot of independent pattern designers are expanding their ranges into much larger sizes than previously, and they are finding that it's much harder than grading between smaller sizes, because the proportions are different. So it isn't just a case of using an existing pattern (which may have taken many hours to design and draft) and making it a bit bigger all round. A whole new pattern may have to be made, and the resulting sales could be minimal or the garment may not sell at all.

You can't cater for everyone, unless you add a much longer lead time for less popular sizes so they can be made to order. Even then, if you make a plus size line, you will be asked for plus petite sizes, or something else.

As to how to deal with the blackmail (because that's what it might be, and don't discount the suspicion that someone in competition with you is behind the complaints):

You should be polite, very reasonable, but firm and deal with the first customer complaint. You should try as much as possible to use the answer to the complaint to talk about your range, your products.

State that you are proud to offer items in the large size range you produce, and that you are sorry they didn't find what they were looking for this time, with the hope that they will find something in next year's sale. Close with the reminder that your normally priced range is sure to carry something they will love. Be all cheery in wishing everyone a very happy new year.

I think you are probably right in that someone has got their 'group' together to post these reviews if they've all come at once and stressing the same 'issue'. Does etsy allow you to specify that only verified purchasers can post reviews? If it does have that option it might help vet out the obvious targeted negative reviewers.

Be worth googling your brand name or store name, as well as the reviewers usernames etc. see if it comes up on any chat boards or places which could be linked.

Keep doing what you're doing, your business case and rationale is based on facts and figures only, which make perfect sense. Other comparisons that pps have listed like duvet sizes, child vs adult sizes etc etc are all examples of the increased costs of fabric increasing the cost of the item. The fact you have a 3 tier pricing system also is extremely fair, and a lot fairer than a huge amount of other companies. Comparing your pricing structure and financial flex to that of a huge retailer is simply impossible - your uniqueness and ability to cater for a wide range without compromising style etc. will be why people come to you in the first place.

As long as you're happy with your life choices, and happy in your own skin its no-one's business but your own - but expecting a small business to absorb legitimate additional costs on your behalf is not fair nor logical.

Sounds like you could have a few keen customers on here OP!

They aren’t genuine potential customers. They’ll have just jumped on some SJW bandwagon and you’re the latest easy target for keyboard warriors

So glad I'm not the only one this occurred to

My thoughts too. There's an old joke about a man who got stranded on a desert island and was found five years later, having built himself a whole community - a shop, a pub, a gym, a theatre, a library and TWO chapels. When they asked why this was, he said "Oh, THAT's the chapel I don't go to. "

Some people just love spending their time causing trouble, waiting to be offended and dwelling at length on things that don't actually apply to or interest them. Just look at the number of posters on MN who will see a thread title, decide to open it and then take the time to comment that they (supposedly) couldn't care less about it and that anybody else who does care about it is bad/wrong/stupid/has too much time on their hands.

You are not being unreasonable at all and how horrible of these people trying to attack a small business. As the previous posters have said, a clear response to bad reviews will allow people to see the truth

Really shooting themselves in the foot aren't they?
YANBU and you should probably discontinue your larger range. It sounds like that's not your core business anyway.

I'm fat myself, quite happy to pay more for the more material it takes to cover my lardyarse, I remember the days when it was quite difficult to get bigger size clothes and walking into Evan's was like doing a walk of shame, make sure no one is looking as you make out you're just walking past then slip in as you walk round the corner, I'd take my own bag too so I wouldn't be walking around with an Evan's bag, so I'm grateful to be able to get bigger sizes almost anywhere now.

It's not just in the human world either. I've just bought a few dog coats ranging from *£26 - £40 for my rather large dog, the same coats for a chihuahua were all less than a tenner .. again I'm not complaining I know my dog is bigger so uses more material.

Not sure what I was trying to say now lol but nope you're not fat shaming