To think I am not body shaming or ripping larger people off?

[BimBamBoomer]

I've NC because this is potentially outing!

I have my own tiny but fairly successful business making clothes. Mostly I make a few specific lines to order (via Etsy type websites) and have sizes 6-26 available. However I also have occasional sales on Facebook where I have a page and sale group. The sales are a mix of returned customer orders, things I made to the wrong size or colour by accident, slight seconds, unsold stock from events (festivals etc) and some one offs made with amazing material I've picked up or pieces I've upcycled. I tend to end up with most of my stock for the sales in sizes 10-16 just because a) that's what most people order so that's what I have most seconds of, b) if I'm making stock for an event I make more of the most popular sizes for obvious reasons, and c) if I get a bit of amazing material I try to make the most of it especially if it was expensive.

I've recently had my end of 2019 sale and since then have had a flurry of messages from unhappy larger people. I suspect I've been named and shamed somewhere as it's come out of the blue in the last week. They're not happy that I don't have enough stock in their size, and that the more unique one off pieces are mostly in the middle sizes. I've been replying explaining why and that they can order larger sizes from my standard range and have them made. If they wanted a replica of a one off they've seen, I can give a quote but it wont be cheap! But I've now had a few bad reviews on my page from people who think it's unfair that the some of the larger sizes cost more. I agonised over this but in the end felt I had to have sliding pricing on some items (not all - I charge the same for all sizes for about half my range). But a size 8 in some styles uses literally half the material of a size 24 - and I charge for materials plus an hourly rate for my time (at a rate that covers overheads etc). The materials I use aren't cheap and I don't know how to make this fair or how to answer the bad reviews. I'm quite upset and feel really down that people think this of me.

Am I body shaming, really and honestly?

You need to make a profit on each item, not just break even.

I am one of those larger people

You are not body shaming or discriminating.

You've contradicted yourself here, sorry!

I accept the contradiction! But I stand by if you charge the same for size 8 and size 16, then why should 26 be any different?

No different from high street stores charging more for say age 11-12 than age 9-10. Next and many other stores do this for children's clothing and often you're only talking a very slight difference in sizes and they're mass produced not hand made. I would maybe just stick to your best selling sizes in future.

Yanbu. My 13 year old's clothes cost more than my 5 year old's clothes from the same shop.

I'm guessing from mention of festivals & events that you're marketing to a specific subculture?

Tbh, it's always going to be an issue with that market - people are not exactly teenagers & tend to be a wide range of shapes & sizes, plus they're paying for one offs, unusual design, often lots of fiddly finishes - I'm a well covered middle aged goth & we are LEGION.

So yeah, it's unavoidable. It's not like a big manufacturer that can decide that the size 8s can just cost the customer the same as size 26 & meh it'll all average out over a huge production run, & then they'll reduce whatever didn't sell. Totally different economy.

I think all you can do is explain that your core business is bespoke, so you can't predict what items you'll have to sell off.

Sympathies - I have several friends running this sort of business & they all groan about this sort of thing!

@Sotiredofthislife but she doesn't... Op has 3 price brackets, not 2

Could you link to your website? You had me at large sizes made to order!

Yes @PurpleCrowbar I do have a fairly specific market (not goths tho )

It's the first time I've come up against this issue so it's actually a relief to hear that it's a common complaint!

BimBamBoomer good for you. You have the balance right.

Get your FAQ and prewritten reply sorted and weather the weird little storm.

I don't understand why anyone who genuinely wears a larger size would be hounding you, as many retailers don't stock larger sizes at any price, and this kind of pressure will result in those that do either going out of business or stopping the largest sizes.

Also It’s the same people moaning about the sizing and price that moan about clothes being sustainable , there’s an instagrammer I see all the time maiming about the non inclusivity of larger sizes but then moans about stuff not being eco friendly . They can’t have it all ways .

YANBU! It’s not fat shaming at all. They’re very nasty people whoever has done this to you, and should rethink their lifestyles!

YANBU. One of the consequences of being a larger size is that there is less choice out there. That’s not discrimination or body shaming in action, it’s just fact.

Ps. OP I’d really like to have a look at your shop on Etsy what is it!

As a customer you just expect most retailers to spread out the cost. I obviously understand why it’s different for a bespoke product but think some customers do need it explaining to them.

I am plus size and I buy a lot of stuff on Etsy from people running small businesses. It is entirely normal for the larger sizes to cost more. That these people are complaining about it makes me suspect that they are just complaining for the sake of it. Genuine customers of small businesses like yours are well aware and used to larger sizes costing more.

Start selling each item by weight at £ per kg (to include time taken)

There is a hugely popular fabric shop near us that sells by weight, that way no one could argue re price difference

Life is unfair.

If I was a size 8 (I wish), I'd be unhappy at paying the same price for a dress as size 20+ & would go elsewhere.

The larger people know the answer to paying less for their clothes

I don't see people sending shit messages and leaving bad reviews on every single trainer company who charge more for a size 7 shoe that they would a junior size. 🧐 yanbu

But I stand by if you charge the same for size 8 and size 16, then why should 26 be any different?

Because plus size drafted patterns often require disproportionately more material. A pattern cut for sizes 8 to 16 might be able to be cut from the same length of fabric, but larger sizes would need extra fabric. It's not like you only use the fabric that is in the final garment, there's the offcuts too, and fabric comes in standard widths. If your size goes bigger than that width, the cutting layout changes and it uses a whole lot more fabric.

Almost anything in life that is bigger will cost more.

It really should be obvious to anyone that at ends of the scale - whether that's the 6s and 4s or the 24s and 26s, there's a significantly smaller pool of customers: though people are getting fatter in general, the vast majority of people seem to fall between a modern 10 and a modern 18, surely? So clearly you've got a smaller market so, as an independent, will have a smaller stock . That's just basic business sense.

I suspect, as PP have said, there's bandwaggoning going on here.

I am very fat nowadays, and though, as PP have mentioned, I am aware it takes more material to clothe me, I dislike paying a premium for this, so only do so from independents like yourself, since it's clear that they don't have the economies of scale mass retailers have. I wouldn't be put off from buying from you because of this, and neither would I expect every sale line to be available in my size, as that would just be bloody silly. I would also pay zero attention to bad reviews whingeing for these reasons.

TL: DR - I'm a fat person who dislikes paying extra in general BUT your policy and these bad reviews wouldn't stop me buying from you

(I appreciate you don't want to link on here, but could you pm me your shop link? Fat person who's not a dick in need of clothing!)

Unfortunately this is just basic fact that when you use more materials an item is more expensive. Maybe large shops can charge the same price for an item in all sizes but obviously they can bulk buy fabric and negotiate on the numbers. If anything shops seem to be offering less choice in sizes rather than more. A store here in America that focuses on the teen market offers one size only! So if it doesn't fit you, you're out of luck.

I think the reminders of people size that comes with the reality of needing more fabric is really what is at the heart of this issue. It's neutral and fact based that larger sizes need more fabric. How we interpret that fact is what is causing the emotion and anger.

I like the idea of selling by weight tbh though some light things take longer to make than some heavy things! But it would be unarguable...

Yanbu and I say that as a bigger person. I’d fit in your biggest size, and my 18 and 21 year old daughters would wear your smallest. Their tshirts are smaller than my knickers. Of COURSE you have to charge more, its amazing enough you're even catering for that many sizes.i don’t think many other small businesses do.

I really hope you don’t stop making clothes for bigger people. Theres hardly any choice as it is.