Using E-cigarette in a meeting

[StrawberryShortbread2001]

I'm a support worker and work on a ward. E-cigs are allowed in the communal rooms (lounge, dining room) and the bedrooms. The only time they're not allowed is in ward round.

We were having a community meeting which we have every week. E-cigarettes are allowed to be used during the meeting. This was a special meeting about a certain issue so as well as the usual service users, nurses, support workers, occupational therapists and social worker - the consultant, head social worker, psychologist and hospital manager were there. One of the service users was engaging and putting a point across with a bit of back and forth. She was using her e-cig when not talking. Suddenly the hospital manager looked at her a bit horrified and said 'are you smoking?' She said 'No! I'm using a e-cigarette' The consultant then jumped in to say she shouldn't be using it. She was embarrassed and confused at being called out on it and stopped engaging in the meeting. At the end she spoke to the consultant to tell him they always used e-cigarettes in the merting and he told her she should have known not to use it and she needs to be more flexible in her thinking.

Am I right to think 1. If e-cigs weren't to be used it should have been announced at the beginning of the meeting and 2. She shouldn't have been called out in public like that

It caused the service user a lot of upset and has really wound me up!

@SimonJT - staff can't just choose not to be around service users! It is not innapropriate to use an e-cigarette in your own home especially if you can't/are restricted in going outside.

Also this is not like a normal meeting in the outside world. It is a meeting happening in the service users home, they struggle to engage but e-cigarettes help. They have been told they are fine at every other meeting. Why wouldn't a service user use one to help them engage? Out of 12 only 2 managed to engage. This one used her e-cigarette to help her do so.

@StrawberryShortbread2001, please could you quickly say why ward rounds are different - just so a pp pipes down about it. No idea what the relevance is.

Also don't forget the service users are seriously unwell. They aren't necessarily able to think about what is normal in the outside world. They are just trying to get through each day however they can.

So few people have taken the time to actually read your carefully worded post op!

The consultant is at fault of course for shaming a patient/service user in what is essentially their home and for doing nothing against the rules. Why was the consultant not aware that e-cigarettes were allowed and commonly used? Was She/he new?

I think that for some, the confusion is arising from not knowing the difference between an inhalator and a vape. I didn't know the difference either until our ward started the smoking ban and we had to prescribe and administer these inhalators - if anyone wants to see what these are, google 'nicorette inhalator'. The vapes spew out huge clouds of smoke and others have to breathe this in. The inhalators don't; it's more akin to someone using an inhaler, not the same but more comparable. In my ward, the e-cigs/vapes and cigarettes are banned. Inhalators are not.

I think the main issue was a breakdown in communication and lack of awareness of what is going on in the hospital in regards to nicotine replacement therapy. The hospital manager should know what is and isn't allowed on the wards and I assume there would he some kind of policy covering this. Either the inhalators are allowed in which case the hospital manager shouldn't have pulled the service user up or they're not allowed, in which case the service user shouldn't have been using it on the ward, community meeting or no community meeting. What is and isn't allowed should also be communicated clearly to service users upon admission and all wards should be singing from the same hymn sheet. Otherwise it makes it very problematic if a patient is moved ward and there are different rules there than there was on the previous ward.

It sounds like there hasn't been clear communication as to what is and isn't allowed and there shouldn't really be exceptions ie 'well you can't use inhalators inside but for some occasions you can' as it just makes it more confusing and scenarios like the one you have described begin to arise.

@worra - sorry trying to get through the posts! They are banned during ward round as it is the consultant's personal choice.

What’s the difference between an e cig and a vape? Genuinely don’t know? I thought they were advertised as the same thing.

I've explained the possible relevance Alsohuman, so you should have no problem piping down yourself.

As they are normally used he should not have called her out on it in front of everyone. Although I wouldn’t like it in a meeting I can understand that it supports people with anxiety.

We are not allowed them on premises.

Perhaps a memo needs to be sent around before the meeting next time.

e-cigs are allowed in Hospitals?? Really? So you can't go into a break room or meeting without having to breathe the disgusting and unhealthy output from an e-cigarette? I'm astonished!

If other organizations and businesses ban e-cigs, so should hospitals IMHO. I'm amazed that anyone would consider this to be ok.

@jakeyboy - crisps would be fine but no alcohol allowed!

They are banned during ward round as it is the consultant's personal choice.

Ok, so why would they choose to sit in a meeting with e-cigs being used?

I think this whole thing is about miscommunication. The policy needs to be looked at, possibly tightened up and made available to everyone.

As for this At the end she spoke to the consultant to tell him they always used e-cigarettes in the merting and he told her she should have known not to use it and she needs to be more flexible in her thinking Wow. A service user who is unwell, has been called in in front of her peers is now being blamed for inflexible thinking when he is at fault for not grasping the policy? He owes her an apology.

Mlou32 puts it very well.

@cherrysoup - it wasn't a professional it was a service user. The policy would have been decided by the professionals in consultation with the service users.

Don't forget everyone - not long ago cigarettes were allowed on the ward (outside).

I put YANBU because if e cigs had previously been allowed then it was unfair to change the goalposts and expose, embarrass and humiliate a service user.

I think it is reasonable to lay down ground rules for meetings and make them clear to all - and reasonable to restrict anything that impacts on other members of the meeting.

@lady - yes your points are right. This was a pretty traumatic experience for an unwell service user trying her best to engage. I expect it will put her back a lot.

@edsheeran - thanks - you are right.

Gosh! The whole using an e-cigarette whilst working just seems unprofessional
Maybe actually read the op @PepsiLola

@Alsohuman - we don't know that they don't kill people yet. Time will tell. They may be just as harmful if not more so.

@Toddlerteaplease - the service users do not have 'work hours' - they live there. And as I keep saying vapes are not allowed only e-cigarettes. Vapes make huge amounts of smoke while the e-cigarettes - very minimal.

The other side is that e-cigarettes are really encouraged at the hospital as according to the NHS they are over 90% better than cigarettes.

I feel sorry for her, you asked people who may experience anxiety to come and engage in a group situation with people they potentially feel inferior to and then she’s shot down for doing something she does at every other meeting and is allowed to do at every other meeting.

With service users the person leading that group prescribes the menu; the format they follow. The menu here is ‘I’m allowed to use my e-cig in this meeting in this area’.

I’d be really disappointed with the hospital manager to be honest, it shows a lack of awareness for the people you’re dealing with and for their needs in what is effectively their space. Which given the job you’re doing, is pretty shit.

OP is there a way you can feed back to the hospital manager?

I agree she was wrong to vape in a meeting. Even a 20 a day cigarette smoker would be able to go without for the length of a meeting so a vaper certainly would. They are awful things.

Please, people - read the thread! @pepsi - it was a service user!